Last Saturday my wife and I drove down to Natchez, a place I've visited many times, especially during my years with IBM, and this trip was more fun than work. I'd signed an agreement with the Mississippi Writers Guild not long ago to conduct several workshops this year on writing and selling short fiction, and this one was the first. The next session's in Jackson, in April. We had a good time.
One of the things I usually find interesting, in writer gatherings like this, are the students'/attendees' responses to the question, "Are you an outliner?" In my experience, the group is always almost equally divided on that issue, and that was the case Saturday as well. About half say they know beforehand where the story's going and how they're going to get there; the other half say they start writing with no idea of where or how the story'll end. The first half happily identifies as "outliners" or "plotters" and the other half as "seat-of-the-pantsers," which is the way they fly their story planes. (The only pantser I know who doesn't like that term is my longtime friend and writing buddy Elizabeth Zelvin. Sorry, Liz. We'll call you a non-outliner.)
As I've said before, I would never attempt to change anyone's approach, on this. I'm not even sure it's changeable. I think it boils down to which way our brains are wired, just as some of us are always late and others always early, some like the toilet paper to unroll from the top and others from the bottom, some like to squeeze the toothpaste tube from the middle and others from the end, etc. Vive la difference, right?
I confess that I'm a plotter/planner/outliner. Rarely on paper, but certainly in my mind. I'm one of those structure-driven people who have to be be able to picture most of the scenes in the story beforehand, all the way to the ending. That might change a bit as I go along--it often does--but I have to know that tentative story layout before the writing starts. Does that make my stories less fun to write? Does it make the process more boring? Does it stifle my creativity (who in the hell came up with that phrase)? The answer's no. It doesn't. Instead, an outline gives me the comforting mental safety-net that I need, in order to shoulder my backpack and set out on my storytrip. If I didn't have that road map in my head, I might eventually make it to my destination, but I might not, and if I did get there, I think I'd waste a lot of time and effort on the way. That, to me, would not be fun.
NOTE: I'm not saying I don't respect the (roughly) half of my writing students and half of my writer friends who don't follow a mental or physical outline. In fact, I envy them. These carefree adventurers strap on their goggles and climb into their literary ATVs without knowing much of anything about the road ahead, and motor merrily into the unknown with big grins and flapping scarves, usually (and somehow) with good results (!!). In fact, some of the writers I most admire do it that way (!!!!). How? Don't ask me. I would still be wandering around out there someplace, running into dead ends and cursing and backtracking and rewriting. But--again--their way seems to work, and I would never try to change them. I don't even want to change them. I like their stories.
One more thing. We're not always talking about only two groups, here. There are probably half a dozen different variations and subgroups between the two extremes. Yes, some writers do indeed have their entire story planned in great detail before starting, and they stick to it. Others have an ending firmly in mind but everything else is undecided. Others know their characters but don't yet know the storyline. Others know only the title and maybe a few opening words. Others have a fairly clear picture of how things will progress, but they don't dwell on it because they realize most of it'll change after the construction begins. And still others start with a completely blank slate, not knowing anything at all about their story except that there's probably one out there someplace, waiting to be discovered. On a scale of 10 to 1, with 10 being "I've got the whole story in my head" and 1 being "I have no idea what'll happen until I start writing," I'm probably an 8 or a 9.
By the way, I'm always early, I like the TP mounted to unroll from the top, and I squeeze the toothpaste tube from the middle.
How about you? Outliner or free-wheeler? Or somewhere in between?
I'm generally a free-wheeler, but I also am always early, like the TP mounted to unroll from the top, and squeeze the toothpaste tube from the middle. You just never know...
ReplyDeleteNever know, is right. I think we're one or the other, and that's that. A couple of things I often see as an outliner is that the writing itself goes pretty fast (because it's planned), but it usually takes me a while beforehand, to think it all through. Pluses and minuses.
ReplyDeleteNot that it matters: My wife's always late and she squeezes the toothpaste tube from the end--but we agree on the TP.
I've hit huge stoppages in my stories where i have to sit down and write out what basically happens, like "Mike hides the bag in a dumpster, and then goes for a sandwich at The Oasis. When I get down to writing it (because I know where I'm going) I can write out Mike's dialogue, where he got the bag, how long he's been hanging out at the Oasis and how these two guys followed him and what they're going to do. (What two guys? They just showed up in the story!)
DeleteJeff, I do the same thing, but usually in my head. And I too have characters pop up unexpectedly now and then, in my supposedly planned story. Whattayagonnado?
DeleteThe entire story is complete in my head , like a movie. Thus I never write it because I’ve seen the movie. And, yes. The people are real to me.
ReplyDeleteI didn’t mean to remain anonymous. But I find that in itself interesting. It’s the way my stories are: not seen or read. 😂
DeleteHey Cheryl. I too see my story in my head, beforehand, and yes, like a movie. I've always written visually--it's the only way I know how. As for characters, I rarely describe them completely (I like the reader to do that, as much as possible), but I see them clearly in my head. Years later I can remember one of my stories and see the characters and the setting exactly, as if on a screen.
DeleteI'm sure all writers can do that, but I see them even before the writing starts. Once again, I'm not saying that's the best process to use, but it's the only way I know how to do it.
I like your comment "I never write it because I've seen the movie." But I wish you would write it!
I spent too many years in project management to stumble into a work with no outline. The outline gives you the confidence that you and your characters are actually going somewhere, which provides the flexibility of including new insights into your story as things unfold.
ReplyDeleteThat's my view, also, Mike. I can see you with your blueprint under your arm (or in your head) as you churn out the work. If I didn't do that, I'm SURE I would waste a ton of time going down blind alleys. I don't know how the seat-of-the-pantsers do it.
DeleteIt truly is amazing how our creative minds work.
ReplyDeleteMy work life was what one might call orderly chaos: procedures and protocols to follow when solving a problem. A patient arrives, needy for sure and then solve the puzzle. May work out as you plan, may not. Fiction comes to me in that manner too. A character comes to mind, then a scene, a name at some point, events follow. I never know the why of he or she, the story evolves as the problem/conflict surfaces, getting over the bridge is free flowing, the end unknown until it reaches a reasonable conclusion. A surprise. If I'm not bored, it gets submitted somewhere.
Maybe that's why I'm not as successful as John Floyd!
I've tried outlining but it is a downer...just isn't pleasure work.
However, when I paint, the end result is generally very close to what I have plotted. Go figure...
Yep, amazing is right. And I love the sentence "if I'm not bored, it gets submitted somewhere." Sounds like a pretty good gauge of what'll work and what doesn't, to me.
DeleteAlso sounds as if you have a good handle on how to get your stories written. I'll say again, I'd do it that way if I could! As for the pleasure of it, I agree with you that that's the key. If it feels right and it's fun, that's what you should do (at least as far as story construction goes). It's interesting that your painting takes a different path.
Thanks for these observations--I always learn something from the comments triggered by these blog posts!
Great essay, John. I vacillate between the two. For a story I wrote for an anthology, I plotted it to make it make sense. Today I finished a story where it was completely pantsing. I enjoyed writing both. The outline is the bones for me and the writing is putting flesh on the bones. Aside from short stories, I wrote a TV pilot starting with an outline and then pantsed my way through it, but it started out as a short story. Weird and fun this writing life, eh?
ReplyDeleteEd, I'd be interested to know if you give the toothpaste tube a squeeze at the end AND at the middle. Just kiddin. And yep, the writing life IS weird. (I think that's one of the fun things about it.) As for screenplays, I would most definitely have to outline those, partly because they have a built-in structure, with all those acts and plot points, etc.
DeleteThe great thing about all this is that once you find what works (outlining, freewheeling, a combination of both, etc.), that's all you need. When it works for you, it doesn't matter a whit what anyone else does. My hangup is I can't even seem to START writing until I know what the plot is. To each his own . . .
7.5 for me!
ReplyDeleteHa! Yep, I had you figured for a 7.5!!
DeleteSeriously, I'm probably a little higher on the planner/pantser scale (as I said, 8 at least), but I could never be a 10 because I do often wind up changing the plot as I progress, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. Depends on the story, and of course the length. The shorter stories I pretty much stick to the original storyline, the longer ones tend to get tweaked more.
Thanks as always, Barb.
I began as a pantser but over the years I've found myself jotting down the overall idea of the story, then jotting down a few major scenes or plot points, and then . . . so now I find myself somewhere between 6 and 7, to my surprise. But maybe things will start going backwards, and I'll end up a 2 or 3. I think if I could, I'd work out a story in advance and then write it all, but I'm afraid I'd get bored or change my mind halfway through and then have an unholy mess.
ReplyDeleteSusan, that's what I've heard from others as well: they feel too much plotting-in-advance could lead to boredom as they write. And I can see their point. Once again, my pre-planning (is that a word?) isn't done because I want to; it's done because I have to. That's just my process, and I've done it so many times now, it's as natural as breathing. (By the way, some of my stories have turned into an unholy mess in spite of my planning. But I've found it works most of the time.)
DeleteI never thought about it until now. I guess I am a seat-of-the-pants writer, as I usually have a mental idea for a story, plant my rear in a chair and start writing. I generally have some sense of the ending, but I don't think have ever had a clear picture of the ending before I started typing.
ReplyDeleteHa! You're right, I think that approach puts you firmly in the seat-of-the-pants seat! And I congratulate you for making that approach work. (I wish I could do it that way.) I will say this: I have written and published a lot of "planned" stories that wound up with endings that I either changed or added to, before they were finished. And there are mystery-novel writers I've talked with who say their not knowing who the villain is until the end helps because that ensures that their readers won't know who the villain is until the end. (That statement makes my head hurt, but I believe that they believe it, and that's all that matters.)
DeleteWhichever way you do it, full speed ahead. I wish you the best!
Great column, John! I'm probably about a 6. I tend to think about a story for a while before sitting down to start writing, and I generally have to know what ending I have in mind before I start. However, there are always surprises along the way, characters saying or doing things I didn't plan.
ReplyDeleteWe're a lot alike there, Joe. And even though I consider myself way more of an outliner than a pantser (probably more than you), I do indeed encounter surprises that I had no way of seeing beforehand, and that I believe wind up making the "planned" storyline better. I think being TOO rigid in planning a story would be a mistake.
DeleteYou have certainly proven that your stories work, so whatever you're doing must be right for you. Thanks for the insights!
I usually like to plot things out, but the degree of detail differs from project to project. It pains me to say that I have lost some respect for you, learning that you squeeze the toothpaste tube FROM THE MIDDLE! But just a tiny speck of respect. The rest is still firmly there.
ReplyDeleteKaye, I think I mostly do that because my wife and I use the same toothpaste tube, and I can rely on her to keep it squozen from the end. (If squozen's not a word, it should be.) And I agree, the degree of detail depends on the story.
DeleteCan't wait, by the way, for your eclipse anthology!
John, I'm going to talk novels here, because that is where I found the big dividing line. If you are with a trad publisher, and you wish to be paid an advance before you write the book, then you are required to submit an outline of the book. It can be a one-pager (if you're lucky, and I'm lucky) or something more involved (chapter by chapter). I understand the need for this - if a company is paying several thousand dollars upfront for something that isn't written yet, they want to at least see what you are proposing to do. This automatically will turn pantsters into planners! Everyone I know who gets an advance eventually becomes a planner, for this reason. Survival in the trade :)
ReplyDeleteThanks for mentioning this, Melodie. Yep, that WOULD turn a pantser into a planner, and fast.
DeleteI did mention that I do more detailed outlines for longer stories than for shorter ones, and especially for novels. (I've written three and a half novels, unpublished, and I wrote chapter outlines for each of those in order to craft what I thought were believable storylines. There were just too many scenes, events, and subplots to keep them all in my head.) I can easily see why publishers would require that.
If I'm not mistaken, you've told me you also do outlines (mental, not written) for your short fiction as well.
To borrow from yet another genre, I am "Verse..." (Versatile.") I outline and I pants (as I put it, I ad-lib.) I usually use a half-assed outline (basically a synopsis) for a story (the only college class i took where I had to outline I faked it and wrote the outline after the report!) The unsubmitted mystery novel (and a couple of half-written fantasy novels) I have written borrow from Thorne Smith who used chapter titles (Like "Wayward Ghosts" and "How Not to Attend A Church Supper.") and I do that for the novels. Of course, I can ignore all that and change where I'm going! This afternoon I wrote one of the flash fictions I do and started the other and the only outline for either was the names of the characters! Again, wonderful to hear your voice in print here, John! I learn so much each time!
ReplyDeleteWhat a cheater. Outlining AFTER your story? (I've done the same thing, in school.)
DeleteAs for chapter titles, I sort of like those, both as a reader and writer. I don't always do it, but I like it. In one of my recent stories for Strand Magazine (it was selected a few weeks ago to be included in Best Mystery Stories of the Year 2024), I used "scene titles" for the half-dozen scenes in that story, and I really enjoyed doing that.
And hey, you're not the only one who changes things as they go along. I do that a lot. Also like you, I don't outline flash fiction. No need to.
Good luck with all your stories, my friend. Always enjoy your comments!
Using your scale, I’m more of a 4. I must know the characters and how the crime ties in to the “big theme” of the story, but other than that, it’s kind of a wild ride with a few stops I know I have to make along the way. My work life is similar:I teach first grade, and I might have the most glorious plan in my head for how the day will go, but I never know if my class might need more time with a concept, or less, or if there will be a fire drill in the middle of math, or if someone loses a tooth in the middle of our literacy block…things get accomplished, somehow, but not always the way I expected! I think for all of us as writers, it boils down to the way we rely on our story sense. The plotters wield it ahead of time to plan their beats and the pantsers set out on a journey knowing that story sense is with them and will guide them to the end. I like a surprise from my characters (and my students!) but within certain parameters…so I feel comfortable at my 4! (Also, I’m always late and squeeze my toothpaste from the middle. Chaos with a little control.)
ReplyDeleteAshley Bernier
Hey Ashley! I love your observation that "things get accomplished, somehow, but not always the way I expected." In one sense, my mental outlines themselves can be a waste of time because I often wind up changing so many things once the writing starts--but the thing is, I just have to have that outline in place in order to get going. Can't help it. It gives me the confidence to get started, although many writers--like you--probably already HAVE that confidence. I admire that.
DeleteAnd I like your term "story sense," and that you use that to help you craft your storyline, throughout. I think all of us have that sense, some more than others. As I mentioned to someone else earlier, you must be doing all this right, whatever your place on the "scale," because you write great (and marketable) stories. Keep it up!!
An interesting facet sometimes left out of this age-old discussion is when and how writers outline. Deborah Crombie initially draws intersecting story-lines on a spiral notebook and then later does chapter outlining. James Paterson shares an outline in his MasterClass.com seminar that uses more of a kitchen-sink approach, almost an abbreviated zero draft, with key details and snippets of dialog. John, it's interesting that you mention some of your outlining is in your head, and Joe, you mention taking some time to think and let ideas percolate in advance. Those are subtler techniques, certainly less teachable, but interesting and crucial parts of your process just the same.
ReplyDeleteHi Avram -- Yes, that is an interesting piece of all this. As you said, so many different approaches. Some authors have told me they jot down info about every scene, some do their outlines the way we used to in high school (A, B,1, 2, 3, a, b, etc.), some do the kitchen-sink thing, some draw detailed plot flowcharts, all kinds of variations. Most of my outlines are indeed in my head, but they include scenes, reversals, the ending, and many other things--even though all that might later change. I find it fascinating that there ARE so many ways of going about this, and that most of us (as you mentioned) find it crucial to our storytelling. Quirks and more quirks . . .
Delete