tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.comments2024-03-18T19:00:03.047-04:00SleuthSayersLeigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger42872125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-72627164621589330952024-03-18T19:00:03.047-04:002024-03-18T19:00:03.047-04:00Alex, our wonderful software has decided O'Nei...Alex, our wonderful software has decided O'Neil is not allowed to respond today. Feel free to email him at denoux3124@yahoo.com Robert Loprestihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08844889305615182897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-90077415716441674692024-03-18T11:10:27.162-04:002024-03-18T11:10:27.162-04:00Hello Eve, You are welcome, and I am honored to ha...Hello Eve, You are welcome, and I am honored to have the opportunity to do so. Nice to hear from a writer with a working knowledge of that "mysterious ecosystem." What a great description!Kevin Eganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18000709608706834993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-51243308641961812392024-03-18T09:33:44.210-04:002024-03-18T09:33:44.210-04:00R. T., I enjoy your historical series, transportin...R. T., I enjoy your historical series, transporting me to 1600s France, the Eurasian Steppes, and Cambodian jungle. You have fantastic versatility. Thanks for sharing factual information writers rarely disclose. I have made more writing write-for-hire novels (Eve, I write for Annie's, a similar deal to Guideposts), but my own novel-length fiction has generally earned less than a short story sale to Alfred, sad to say. Catherine Diltshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05772088568954159017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-46507034548800249762024-03-18T09:33:25.559-04:002024-03-18T09:33:25.559-04:00Kevin, thanks for pitching in on SleuthSayers! I ...Kevin, thanks for pitching in on SleuthSayers! I love the whole idea of the short story and the novel. Having been a Circuit Court Administrator myself, whose office was between the Presiding Judge's and his Court Reporter, I know all about that mysterious ecosystem that is "backstage" of the courtroom. And you have hopefully inspired me to write about it! Thank you!Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-22355414775844842112024-03-18T07:47:43.153-04:002024-03-18T07:47:43.153-04:00This is a difficult decision for all of us. I'...This is a difficult decision for all of us. I'm 44,000 words into a novel that my closest and more experienced friends in the crime fiction community have encouraged me to write. At this particular point in the process, it absolutely does feel like work, but I hope as I get past the muddle in the middle it might prove as enjoyable as short story writing, perhaps even more so. I hope that as my process evolves, novels may become less of an emotional roller coaster, but perhaps that's not realistic. I love short story writing, but if what tethers me to that pursuit is the quicker and easier path to validation, I should probably at least kick the tires on longer forms. Thanks for taking the time and sharing your thoughts. I makes me feel less alone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-76074171164078236012024-03-17T23:58:12.410-04:002024-03-17T23:58:12.410-04:00R.T, I echo what the other have said, that it'...R.T, I echo what the other have said, that it's possible to make a living from short stories... At least if a writer has the talent that you do. Congratulations.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-28428735093237859792024-03-17T20:56:19.966-04:002024-03-17T20:56:19.966-04:00Congratulations, R.T, and I appreciate the analysi...Congratulations, R.T, and I appreciate the analysis and counterintuitive result. Makes sense to me. Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-59346209509788259312024-03-17T16:05:17.497-04:002024-03-17T16:05:17.497-04:00John, I am so far behind the great Ed Hoch and his...John, I am so far behind the great Ed Hoch and his DELL Publishing track record. And, then there is our own Rob Lopresti, who if he keeps his recent pace, will soon pass me up. Plus, every so often, a quiet voice whose story I just enjoyed reading will speak up and mention how many they have had published by AHMM. Getting started seems to be the hardest part, but after that, you do acquire some interesting anecdotes to tell in bars to fellow writers.<br />Hope to see you again at another writers conference.R.T. Lawtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523486296396710227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-62974453383912312382024-03-17T15:49:08.498-04:002024-03-17T15:49:08.498-04:00Liz, thanks for the comments. I always enjoyed see...Liz, thanks for the comments. I always enjoyed seeing you at some of the DELL Publishing Cocktail Receptions in Manhattan during Edgar Week and discussing the short story trade. Keep on writing.R.T. Lawtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523486296396710227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-59128763718965366882024-03-17T15:43:27.732-04:002024-03-17T15:43:27.732-04:00You are correct, Steve, there is a certain satisfa...You are correct, Steve, there is a certain satisfaction in seeing one of your short stories in print under your own byline. It provides a sense of personal achievement, whether it appears in a $25 anthology or an eight cents a word Alfred. Not to mention those publications that paid only in copies of that magazine issue. Getting a $2,500 payment for a short story probably faded away several years ago with Playboy Magazine, and I didn't make the cut, but I'll join you in crazy anytime.R.T. Lawtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523486296396710227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-90516055525238009982024-03-17T15:21:20.143-04:002024-03-17T15:21:20.143-04:00Eve, I'm with you on short stories, and I hope...Eve, I'm with you on short stories, and I hope you keep writing them for us to read.R.T. Lawtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523486296396710227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-8701430368932332442024-03-17T15:18:02.975-04:002024-03-17T15:18:02.975-04:00Mel, sometimes we get lucky enough to both enjoy a...Mel, sometimes we get lucky enough to both enjoy and have a talent for the job we do. Having read your novel involving The Merry Widows, I'd say you have a talent for inventing characters and plots for them to act in, while at the same time having fun. I'll be waiting for their next tale.R.T. Lawtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523486296396710227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-5672692979546609262024-03-17T15:13:00.380-04:002024-03-17T15:13:00.380-04:00Best wishes on your AHMM submission.Best wishes on your AHMM submission.R.T. Lawtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523486296396710227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-22290782454657827322024-03-17T14:58:36.190-04:002024-03-17T14:58:36.190-04:00Ed, thanks for the comments. "A Matter of Val...Ed, thanks for the comments. "A Matter of Values" (AHMM), "Whiskey Curb"(AHMM), "On the Pad" (Mystery Magazine) and "Murder Alley" (AHMM) are part of my Prohibition Era series. The 2nd and 4th stories are titled after actual sites in Manhattan during Prohibition.R.T. Lawtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523486296396710227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-15086291440526670842024-03-17T13:50:32.897-04:002024-03-17T13:50:32.897-04:00R.T., sincere congratulations on that great AHMM t...R.T., sincere congratulations on that great AHMM track record! You set a high bar for the rest of us!John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-53098792124588400682024-03-17T13:43:41.174-04:002024-03-17T13:43:41.174-04:00Hi Avram -- Yes, that is an interesting piece of a...Hi Avram -- Yes, that is an interesting piece of all this. As you said, so many different approaches. Some authors have told me they jot down info about every scene, some do their outlines the way we used to in high school (A, B,1, 2, 3, a, b, etc.), some do the kitchen-sink thing, some draw detailed plot flowcharts, all kinds of variations. Most of my outlines are indeed in my head, but they include scenes, reversals, the ending, and many other things--even though all that might later change. I find it fascinating that there ARE so many ways of going about this, and that most of us (as you mentioned) find it crucial to our storytelling. Quirks and more quirks . . .John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-8113239309144769762024-03-17T12:33:49.328-04:002024-03-17T12:33:49.328-04:00R.T., and then there's the priceless stuff, li...R.T., and then there's the priceless stuff, like your Edgar! As we always say, we're not in it for the money. But it's nice to have some for all your hard work. I agree that writing short stories is both fun and less costly both financially and emotionally. We only have to sell a story once (or twice, if you find a reprint market), not over and over and over like novelists in the toils of marketing.Elizabeth Zelvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13944424094949207841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-5918134444262779872024-03-17T11:41:56.497-04:002024-03-17T11:41:56.497-04:00Intriguing, R. T. And I agree with your final anal...Intriguing, R. T. And I agree with your final analysis.<br /><br />I concentrated on writing (unsold) novels from about 2003 to 2010, when I sold my first one to a small publisher. I kept working on novels with only the occasional short story for several more years, but eventually figured out what you have: the novels weren't paying for themselves, especially when they took 12-14 months to produce. <br /><br />I turned more to short stories.<br /><br />I published my last novel in 2019, and since then I've sold nearly 50 short stories. Some have gone to well-paying markets like AHMM, and some have gone to anthologies that have earned little or nothing, but completing a story and seeing it out there is its own reward. That's fine because I don't think any of us are in this for the money. We may be crazy, but we aren't stupid, right?Steve Liskowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07107703903536520140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-65069049922005229942024-03-17T11:09:38.364-04:002024-03-17T11:09:38.364-04:00I wrote one novel as a gun for hire by Guideposts&...I wrote one novel as a gun for hire by Guideposts' "Murder and the Minister's Wife." It wasn't a bad experience, although I wasn't used to having (shall we say) total plot / character control. Then they asked me to write a second one. And by then they had changed administration / management / writerminders, and they wanted an outline: not just a general outline, with major plot points, but detailed explanation of how I was going to get from each step to the next. I mean, it would have been easier just to write the novel and edit it afterwards. And I said, never again and bowed out. I'll stick to short stories.Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-12660416698968127972024-03-17T10:53:39.119-04:002024-03-17T10:53:39.119-04:00You make a good case, RT! I have certainly been q...You make a good case, RT! I have certainly been questioning my own career as a novelist as I write book 19. Yes, I've made a living at this, but I'm not rich. It takes me a year to write a novel, and while the end result gives me great satisfaction, I do find writing short stories great fun in a way that novels are not! One of these days, 'fun' will win out, as I get older. I'm sure of it.Melodie Campbellhttp://www.melodiecampbell.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-34369436870822232562024-03-17T10:30:43.890-04:002024-03-17T10:30:43.890-04:00An interesting facet sometimes left out of this ag...An interesting facet sometimes left out of this age-old discussion is when and how writers outline. Deborah Crombie initially draws intersecting story-lines on a spiral notebook and then later does chapter outlining. James Paterson shares an outline in his MasterClass.com seminar that uses more of a kitchen-sink approach, almost an abbreviated zero draft, with key details and snippets of dialog. John, it's interesting that you mention some of your outlining is in your head, and Joe, you mention taking some time to think and let ideas percolate in advance. Those are subtler techniques, certainly less teachable, but interesting and crucial parts of your process just the same.Avram Lavinskyhttp://suspense.zonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-80368838537659126762024-03-17T09:58:21.485-04:002024-03-17T09:58:21.485-04:00Hey Ashley! I love your observation that "thi...Hey Ashley! I love your observation that "things get accomplished, somehow, but not always the way I expected." In one sense, my mental outlines themselves can be a waste of time because I often wind up changing so many things once the writing starts--but the thing is, I just have to have that outline in place in order to get going. Can't help it. It gives me the confidence to get started, although many writers--like you--probably already HAVE that confidence. I admire that.<br /><br />And I like your term "story sense," and that you use that to help you craft your storyline, throughout. I think all of us have that sense, some more than others. As I mentioned to someone else earlier, you must be doing all this right, whatever your place on the "scale," because you write great (and marketable) stories. Keep it up!! John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-3621101459292375912024-03-17T09:51:44.369-04:002024-03-17T09:51:44.369-04:00What a cheater. Outlining AFTER your story? (I'...What a cheater. Outlining AFTER your story? (I've done the same thing, in school.)<br /><br />As for chapter titles, I sort of like those, both as a reader and writer. I don't always do it, but I like it. In one of my recent stories for Strand Magazine (it was selected a few weeks ago to be included in Best Mystery Stories of the Year 2024), I used "scene titles" for the half-dozen scenes in that story, and I really enjoyed doing that.<br /><br />And hey, you're not the only one who changes things as they go along. I do that a lot. Also like you, I don't outline flash fiction. No need to.<br /><br />Good luck with all your stories, my friend. Always enjoy your comments!John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-81523580221089754362024-03-17T09:44:27.982-04:002024-03-17T09:44:27.982-04:00Jeff, I do the same thing, but usually in my head....Jeff, I do the same thing, but usually in my head. And I too have characters pop up unexpectedly now and then, in my supposedly planned story. Whattayagonnado?John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-40047815936914085472024-03-17T08:58:25.509-04:002024-03-17T08:58:25.509-04:00Great essay. I particularly liked your AHMM story ...Great essay. I particularly liked your AHMM story "Whiskey Curb." What is a favorite of your stories that you've written, or two or three? I have a pending story with AHMM that I hope will get accepted. Congratulations on your success!Ed Ridgleynoreply@blogger.com