tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post7986065185858867968..comments2024-03-29T08:20:50.011-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: The Complexity • Plausibility IntersectionLeigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-59871937018595809392018-11-04T15:49:57.096-05:002018-11-04T15:49:57.096-05:00I want to put a "like" on Melodie's ...I want to put a "like" on Melodie's and monescu's comments.S. T. Karnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05971214612730402709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-19911589524915851292018-11-04T13:05:28.864-05:002018-11-04T13:05:28.864-05:00I’m afraid I couldn’t disagree more. Agatha Christ...I’m afraid I couldn’t disagree more. Agatha Christie is the best-selling novelist of all time. There must be reasons for this. And while I personally think her skill at characterization is underrated, I doubt many people would consider her the best in this area among mystery novelists, let alone all other types of novelists. So then, what accounts for her unmatched popularity? I would say that there are two primary factors: pure ease of readability (her straightforward, unadorned style), and her plotting ingenuity— an area in which she IS widely considered to be among the very best. <br /><br />It isn’t simply the plot twist of Roger Ackroyd that is well remembered. Far from it. How about Murder on the Orient Express, The ABC Murders, Peril at End House, Hercule Poirot’s Christmas, Crooked House, And Then There Were None...? All well-remembered. Even the more complex, less “high concept” solutions such as Death on the Nile, Five Little Pigs, and After the Funeral, are quite well-remembered by millions of readers and oft-copied. After all, if it were just because of Poirot and Marple that Christie was remembered, why is it that neither the world’s best-selling mystery novel nor the world’s longest running play— both of which Christie wrote— include either of those characters?monescuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04111922576836593406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-2929192512453907242018-11-03T07:51:45.405-04:002018-11-03T07:51:45.405-04:00Thanks for your many good comments. Am on the road...Thanks for your many good comments. Am on the road so did not get to respond promptly<br />Janice lawnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-86714793646544198742018-11-02T20:21:17.171-04:002018-11-02T20:21:17.171-04:00I'm truly torn. On the one hand, I admire memo...I'm truly torn. On the one hand, I admire memorable characters. On the other, like Melodie, I love a brilliant plot, and Gone Girl is tops in my book, Presumed Innocent another. But I have noticed when an author pulls off an ingenious plot, they seldom come up with a worthy followup.<br /><br />You title reminds me of one of an international thriller, maybe the 3rd in a series that began with The Complexity • Plausibility Sanction and followed with The Complexity • Plausibility Conspiracy. Now if I could think up a plot…Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-5644198301662774452018-11-02T14:50:23.545-04:002018-11-02T14:50:23.545-04:00Exactly! When I was working as a ghost tour guide ...Exactly! When I was working as a ghost tour guide in the '90s, the bosses told us not to worry too much whether we had the stories straight or not, because what the customers would remember was the personality of the guide.Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00239163766419735693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-66848135085343398412018-11-02T12:01:16.061-04:002018-11-02T12:01:16.061-04:00I echo everyone else. What I remember from books a...I echo everyone else. What I remember from books are character and setting. But I'll also remember if an author has good or bad plotting. I won't recall the plot, but I'll recall if I ended a book satisfied. If a plot leaves a lot to be desired, be it unbelievability or plot holes, I'll be less inclined to read the author again. Barb Goffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013123434790272424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-33626107462143827652018-11-02T11:42:29.000-04:002018-11-02T11:42:29.000-04:00Ah - I admit to being a plot junky. In my own boo...Ah - I admit to being a plot junky. In my own books, the plot can be distilled down to one line. I learned that trick from Grisham. "If you can't use one line to describe your plot, you don't know what it is."<br /><br />I am with you on this, Janice. Fresh plots are hard to come up with, and I feel a lot of writers overwrite - they make things too complex. I do remember some of Christie's plots - and that is because they were actually quite simple. Motivation is key, and I find that many of today's writers don't give enough attention to perpetrator motivation. (I feel another blog coming on - grin)Melodie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870938103759179132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-23098754301639761432018-11-02T11:34:32.323-04:002018-11-02T11:34:32.323-04:00I have always loved character and atmosphere in a ...I have always loved character and atmosphere in a novel far more than complex plots. I don't enjoy getting lost in the plot nearly as much as I do getting lost in the characters. The one is disorienting; the other is falling in love.<br />I threw The DaVinci Code across the room - I think it's only the 3rd book that I found that obnoxious and poorly written. Him and Ayn Rand...Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-46606700758976003382018-11-02T09:22:06.910-04:002018-11-02T09:22:06.910-04:00Yes, character. Nobody refers to "another mur...Yes, character. Nobody refers to "another murder mystery set in LA," or "another serial killer story." We say "another Harry Bosch/Will Trent/Sherlock Holmes/Carlotta Carlisle story."<br /><br />I agree on your point about implausible red herrings and too many twists, too. They generally sound weird and weaken the "clever" plotting. And, no, you weren't the only one who was underwhelmed by The Da Vinci Code, the most over-rated book of the last twenty-five years.<br /><br />Plot is tough, especially for those of us who don't have linear thought processes. Right now, I'm struggling with the next book, and both sub-plots are chugging along well, but I can't make the main plot go anywhere. I think your comments give the answer, though: I have to develop some of the characters more deeply.<br /><br />An excellent discussion, Janice. Love your dissertation title, too.Steve Liskowhttp://www.steveliskow.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-56184127322447005342018-11-02T08:27:13.122-04:002018-11-02T08:27:13.122-04:00Thanks, Paul.
Thanks, Paul.<br />Janice lawnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-81194190666639260892018-11-02T02:20:09.866-04:002018-11-02T02:20:09.866-04:00Great piece, Janice. And I think you hit a lot poi...Great piece, Janice. And I think you hit a lot points perfectly. I especially like when you say, "But what lingers in the reader’s mind are character and atmosphere. And what gives writers long careers are memorable protagonists." One of the things I find missing (often) in modern crime novels is atmosphere. One of the things we are often told is to skip the parts that readers skip and one of those is description, i.e. atmosphere. I don't think I'd want to go back to the 19th century way of doing things where you have 1,000 page book and the first 500 pages is backstory, exposition and maybe atmosphere and the plot doesn't kick in for hundreds of pages. But I could stand a little more of it. And, you're definitely right on about character, that's what we remember.Paul D. Markshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15466234708772287399noreply@blogger.com