tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post7565903789544459501..comments2024-03-29T08:48:03.820-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: Cross TalkLeigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-51405544099659938402012-06-25T22:00:38.453-04:002012-06-25T22:00:38.453-04:00Well said, James. Get creative, indeed.Well said, James. Get creative, indeed.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-4248136409444551252012-06-25T21:45:45.365-04:002012-06-25T21:45:45.365-04:00We all hate the Klan, we all hate everything they ...We all hate the Klan, we all hate everything they stand for. But many hate the Boy Scouts, and many hate the position the Scouts take on a number of issues.<br /><br />Should the state refuse the Scouts because of this? Should the state allow the Boy Scouts to adopt a mile of highway, would this not place them in a position of agreeing with Scout policy, such as homosexuality, than many find repugnant?<br /><br />"Gordian Knot" usually means "I don't agree with letting THEM do something because I don't like them."<br /><br />Free speech is for everyone or no one. So are road signs saying this group or that group has adopted a mile of highway.<br /><br />Get creative. Just have the state put its own free speech message above the sign, or even on the sign. "The bloody, racist, evil Ku Klux Klan has adopted this mile of highway.<br /><br />The Klan might withdraw it's petition.James A. Ritchiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06079259219969235678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-58703122516697110082012-06-20T02:44:05.543-04:002012-06-20T02:44:05.543-04:00Dixon, it may be the reason Ayn Rand never joined ...Dixon, it may be the reason Ayn Rand never joined the Libertarian Party, kind of like "What have you done with my great ideas?"<br /><br />Herschel, you make an excellent point. Germany has taken a similar approach, outlawing the Nazi Party, Nazi symbols, and songs. Naturally neo-Nazis took exception, which is why you see such things as 3-pronged swastikas.<br /><br />Louis, it makes us angry and I don't have the weight of history of having lived under the Klan and Jim Crow laws.<br /><br />Dale, thanks for a thoughtful and challenging article.Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-16349213245321544572012-06-19T16:45:44.097-04:002012-06-19T16:45:44.097-04:00I had to calm my nerves before commenting on your ...I had to calm my nerves before commenting on your post because any time I read about the Klan I get angry. My first reaction when I read the story was that their participation should be denied. And yet, they do have freedom of speech, so let them participate but make them pay for the sign. And pray that some Black person or persons don’t come along, get out of their car or cars and start a fight, which would be my first thought if I saw them on the side of the road. Not saying I would but I sure would be thinking about it.Louis A. Willishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16563842429688123421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-32322275091087693442012-06-19T15:13:55.792-04:002012-06-19T15:13:55.792-04:00Actually, one of the reasons that States have cite...Actually, one of the reasons that States have cited in denying Klan participation is that the miles adopted by the Klan could become "trash magnates" -- where everyone dumps out of protest. An argument that the United States has argued in these cases is that any State taking Federal funds has to guarantee that everyone the State contracts with must have racially neutral membership requirements. The Klan does not, so it can't participate. Like so many easy solutions however, this invites future application difficulties -- do you want to ban Hispanic organizations from Federal programs? What about black fraternities? It is very difficult to craft a rule that keeps the Klan out but that can be administered equally as to all other groups.Dale Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10553503281187956955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-87966325694094752732012-06-19T14:08:14.691-04:002012-06-19T14:08:14.691-04:00To my way of thinking the Klan is like the Nazis. ...To my way of thinking the Klan is like the Nazis. The latter have been tried and convicted of such heinous crimes as genocide and have forfeited (or should have forfeited)first amendment rights. The fact that they are still allowed to march and demonstrate is a slap in the face of civilized people. The Klan has been found guilty of burnings, lynchings, etc. and have been discredited if not convicted.<br />I realize I would be laughed out of court if I presented this argument. But I am reasonably certain that the majority of Americans feel the way I do. And I'm equally certain they would be outraged to see a sign advertising the Klan as adopters of highways. In extreme cases there could be "accidents" by drivers losing control of their cars on these stretches. Don't laugh. It could happen. I don't advocate such behavior, mind you. But I won't judge it either.<br /><br />Great article, Dale.Herschel Cozinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06097703750150309319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-13446949156178251112012-06-19T13:10:46.630-04:002012-06-19T13:10:46.630-04:00Leigh, I'm rolling on the floor, out here in S...Leigh, I'm rolling on the floor, out here in Scottsdale, after reading your latest comment. And, thank you for outlining the reason why I'm very <i><b>nearly</b></i> a libertarian -- but avoid it! LOLDixon Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11220791609338404147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-203131271663103652012-06-19T12:55:14.976-04:002012-06-19T12:55:14.976-04:00(laughing) I like that.
Dixon, the Libertarian pa...(laughing) I like that.<br /><br />Dixon, the Libertarian party here in Florida is so disappointing. When interviewed about their platform, they usually go "Like wow, man, like we believe in, wow… Do you see those colors? What was the question? Oh, we wanna decriminal drugs, man. And uh, oh yeah, like, we wanna make legal dope, man. Wow, it's so colorful, dude."Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-84132970124047796972012-06-19T12:43:40.133-04:002012-06-19T12:43:40.133-04:00Being very nearly a libertarian, myself, I find th...Being very nearly a libertarian, myself, I find this a very thorny question indeed.<br /><br />However, something inside me says it would be great to be a member of that black church’s congregation, if the Klan were granted the right to pick up trash along the roadway. I think, being the sort of person I am, I’d convince my friends to join me in always saving up our week’s worth of garbage, to spill along that section of roadway while on the way to church each Sunday. <br /><br />It might be nice to grab a beer at the Anheuser Busch Brewery across the street and drink it with my friends, while sitting on the porch of the church. Something tells me it would be nice to be a black man, sitting with friends (with automatic weapons clearly on display in our laps, naturally), watching idiots in little pointy hats pick up the garbage we had deposited for their benefit. Indeed, I think it would be hard to resist the urge to occasionally point out: “Hey, buddy! You missed a piece, there.”<br /><br />Just a thought.<br />--DixDixon Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11220791609338404147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-61221318605459120772012-06-19T12:31:45.918-04:002012-06-19T12:31:45.918-04:00Hi to James! Typical that you would be able to c...Hi to James! Typical that you would be able to correct Doyle!<br /><br />There is a doctrine in First Amendment law of "fighting words," things that are so inflammatory that the utterance of them is not protected. I always thought that something could have been made of the Doyle reference if the name DID derive from a cocking gun. <br /><br />Leigh -- re the pun: yeah, after three straight humor articles I thought I ought to at least lead with something with a double meaning.Dale Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10553503281187956955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-82001550420972364122012-06-19T12:11:10.616-04:002012-06-19T12:11:10.616-04:00Greetings, James!
My brother, Glen, has a book pu...Greetings, James!<br /><br />My brother, Glen, has a book published in the 1800s about the origin of the Klan and warning of its dangers. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get my hands on it.<br /><br />Dale, it was only after a second visit I got the pun in your title. Very clever!Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-81441902311379376582012-06-19T11:32:14.908-04:002012-06-19T11:32:14.908-04:00In Schenck v.the United States (1919), Oliver Wend...In <i>Schenck v.the United States</i> (1919), Oliver Wendell Holmes also opined that "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic." The clear implication is that 1st Amendment does not protect that speech when it has a harmful effect on public safety. I don't know that this rises to the same level, but the point is clear that there is no such thing as an absolute right to free speech.<br /><br />Doyle was wrong about the etymology of "Ku Klux Klan". The society named itself after the Greek work <i>kuklos</i>, meaning circle, which it adopted from a pre-War secret society called the Knights of the Golden Circle, dedicated to the annexation of Mexico into the U.S. When the Civil War erupted, they switched their allegiance to the Confederacy.James Lincoln Warrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09666160495434980653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-80196592422667741142012-06-19T09:19:21.884-04:002012-06-19T09:19:21.884-04:00Eve -- The Moriarty comparison is interesting. Wh...Eve -- The Moriarty comparison is interesting. When I was writing today's piece I went searching for the Sherlock Holmes quote. I originally remembered it as coming from The Valley of Fear, not the Five Orange Pips. The Valley of Fear is, of course, the story that concludes with Holmes observation that Moriarty is everywhere, behind all things evil.Dale Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10553503281187956955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-11599104062330639702012-06-19T09:04:24.772-04:002012-06-19T09:04:24.772-04:00David Duke came darned close as it was. He was, f...David Duke came darned close as it was. He was, for a while a serious political contender. And it's amazing what's been crawling out of the woodwork up here in local elections - not KKK, but militia / strawman / expatriat thinking, much of which is HUGELY influenced by the Aryan Nation, which... The whole network is a lot more like Moriarity than people think: tentacles everywhere.Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-77814823308034183422012-06-19T08:58:02.671-04:002012-06-19T08:58:02.671-04:00Good points.
and it maybe points up the danger of...Good points. <br />and it maybe points up the danger of continually outsourcing public functions to volunteer organizations who use them as propaganda.Janicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-89186071279540780902012-06-19T04:09:03.761-04:002012-06-19T04:09:03.761-04:00To me, the KKK fails the good citizenship test whi...To me, the KKK fails the good citizenship test which, in my view should make it ineligible.<br><br>Neo-Nazi groups have been very clever. For example, the KKK bought <a href="http://www.martinlutherking.org/" rel="nofollow">MartinLutherKing.org</a>, which originally pretended to be an educational site (and still has children's pages and downloads for flyers to be distributed in schools. Through SEO manipulation, their web site tracks well above the official MLK web sites.<br><br>Much of the anti-immigrant propaganda (pretending to be university studies or articles from the LA Times) comes out of Georgia neo-Nazi groups. I can't begin to guess how much anti-Obama crap flows from the same sewers, stuff we see in eMails every day passed on and on.<br><br>A glance at <a href="http://www.stormfront.org/" rel="nofollow">StormFront.org</a> shows how sophisticated they've become, how they've learned from past mistakes. The sad thing is these's aren't stupid people; indeed, a certain evil genius underlies these programs, but something has corrupted, some mental carcinoma has affected a few who otherwise could become great men. With his charisma, good looks, and speaking ability, can you imagine what poster boy David Duke could have become if he'd chosen the path of goodness and light instead of darkness?<br>Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.com