tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post6837348550898171251..comments2024-03-28T10:16:38.716-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: Fee or Free?Leigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-16043932254518244972015-06-28T14:56:54.924-04:002015-06-28T14:56:54.924-04:00Good point, Bonnie. I had a story in KRL too, a c...Good point, Bonnie. I had a story in KRL too, a couple years ago, and though it wasn't a novel tie-in or anything, I got some good feedback on it. Another thing is, many of these non-paying markets are open to reprints, which again is good exposure.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-43930723345434170602015-06-28T13:16:49.784-04:002015-06-28T13:16:49.784-04:00I'm late to the party, but I'd like to men...I'm late to the party, but I'd like to mention one more time when it might make sense to send a story to a non-paying market. Like several others here, I generally submit only to paying markets or to anthologies that benefit charities (or, once, to an anthology that was supposed to generate royalties but never paid me one cent). When my first novel came out this spring, however, I sent a very short story to King's River Life, an online magazine that doesn't pay fiction writers but does allow them bio notes--and also, apparently, reaches a fair number of readers. I built the story around a character from the novel, mentioned that fact in my bio note, and hoped some readers would like the character enough to buy the novel. Did it work? I have no idea. I got some nice comments about the story, though, and plan to send another story about that character to King's River Life soon. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-26354955336338361982015-06-27T16:39:27.012-04:002015-06-27T16:39:27.012-04:00Liz, I bet you poets WERE grinnin', about that...Liz, I bet you poets WERE grinnin', about that grant. I sold a poem once to <i>Farm & Ranch Living</i> for $80--the most I ever made from a piece of my light verse. Here it is (ready for this?): We had a horse when I was born / we used the horse to plow the corn. / We never ate the corn, of course / we used the corn to feed the horse. Can't believe the Pulitzer people weren't calling me about that one.<br /><br />I agree with you: when I finish a story I usually try to place it at the best market possible. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. I do remember how pleased I was when you submitted a story to an anthology I edited several years ago--a charity publication for which none of us were paid. You made me look good!John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-64267097252140247502015-06-27T16:13:38.542-04:002015-06-27T16:13:38.542-04:00Thanks for the mention, John. :) We're at oppo...Thanks for the mention, John. :) We're at opposite ends of the spectrum for short story output. Since I write so few short stories, I care most about getting every story placed. My formula is payment, prestige, and high circulation if I can, zilch, respect, and however many readers they can get me if I can't. I write novels too, and there's currently consensus that most novelists aren't making a living either. I've heard $11,000 a year mentioned as the average or maybe the mean or the median. I was also a published poet for thirty years and never got paid cash, not even for my two books from a well established small press. All payment was in copies. I did once get a $5,000 grant from a state arts council, in 1983, along with fifteen other poets. I've never been in a roomful of such radiant smiles on so many faces, not even at the Edgars. :)Elizabeth Zelvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13944424094949207841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-54888898535349047732015-06-27T14:23:31.927-04:002015-06-27T14:23:31.927-04:00Many thanks, David. Based on your track record at...Many thanks, David. Based on your track record at EQMM, you could give lessons on writing marketable fiction. On that subject, a writer friend of mine is fond of saying his short stories provide him an income in the low double figures ($10, $20, $40, etc.).<br /><br />Eve, I agree that Sandra Seamans has always done a great job with the My Little Corner blog--I've pointed a lot of folks in her direction. And GOOD POINT, on using an anthology index to find possible targets for submissions. By the way, it's surprising how many award nominations (and wins) seem to come from stories first published in anthos. It's a market writers can't afford to overlook.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-7797667299435358732015-06-27T14:06:19.515-04:002015-06-27T14:06:19.515-04:00Rob, your self-imposed rule is obviously working, ...Rob, your self-imposed rule is obviously working, because you publish regularly in fine markets. As for SleuthSayers (and Criminal Brief too), yes, our unpaid work there has always been fun. <br /><br />Thanks, Jan. Good to hear from you! Yes, the main thing is to get our writing in front of readers, and another point is that you and I both have published occasionally at some non-paying markets because of our close relationship with certain editors. Joseph DeMarco at <i>Mysterical-E</i> comes to mind--I'll probably always continue to submit stories to Joe because he's been so kind to me over the years.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-56349521044121547052015-06-27T14:00:30.421-04:002015-06-27T14:00:30.421-04:00Lots more experience here than mine. But, I'v...Lots more experience here than mine. But, I've done both. Mostly paid, but some free stuff, especially if it's a story that I know would be otherwise really difficult to place. Thanks for all the listings - I subscribe to My Little Corner, and it's great. BTW, one thing I do is read anthologies, and look up in the index where stories I like got published - and then go check out that market. Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-39686899647277738792015-06-27T13:31:24.290-04:002015-06-27T13:31:24.290-04:00Great advice, John; a very worthwhile piece all ro...Great advice, John; a very worthwhile piece all round. I set a high value on my fiction, though I'm a little more reasonable than Rob--fifty dollars; no compromise. No way they're getting me any lower than that...probably. No sir, I don't think so. At least as it stands now. Firm. Yep.David Deanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13005457506363262838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-72370997647081389352015-06-27T13:19:41.000-04:002015-06-27T13:19:41.000-04:00Great post, John. I'm still submitting everywh...Great post, John. I'm still submitting everywhere I can, to both payinng and non-paying markets, even after having over sixty stories placed. My bottom line is, I want to be read. Being paid is a nice bonus, when it happens. Jan Christensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02027877440748580764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-68845956179851219232015-06-27T13:18:25.810-04:002015-06-27T13:18:25.810-04:00I decided when I started writing fiction that I wo...I decided when I started writing fiction that I would never wreite for free - except for charity. A few years ago I decided my rock bottom was one hundred bucks, although I have occasionally gone lower on spec - meaning that the authors were paid on royalties. Of course, the occasional fiction of mine that has appeared at SleuthSayers is unpaid work, and worth every cent.Robert Loprestihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08844889305615182897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-90407038369327013392015-06-27T12:30:07.612-04:002015-06-27T12:30:07.612-04:00Thanks, Jacqueline! I think your progression has ...Thanks, Jacqueline! I think your progression has been typical--as we write more and more we tend to concentrate on paying venues rather than non-paying.<br /><br />We also tend, as Michael Bracken has said (at this blog and elsewhere), to write more stories already tailored to specific markets, rather than writing a story first and then searching everywhere to find a market that it might fit. John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-63400743612804666902015-06-27T11:56:58.790-04:002015-06-27T11:56:58.790-04:00Hi John,
A very helpful blog! When I started writ...Hi John,<br /><br />A very helpful blog! When I started writing, I really didn't think of being paid for poetry and short fiction. At that time it was about building credentials. I've also spoke at a number of library events for free and donated what I earned from sale of books to the Friends of the Library. However, I am at a time in my career when I do expect to be paid for my work unless it's a charity. And so I look for paying markets. I agree with you that starting writers shouldn't worry about being paid in cash immediately. More important to build a reputation.Jacqueline Seewaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09177500620940251009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-82058447857796096342015-06-27T11:43:48.992-04:002015-06-27T11:43:48.992-04:00Melodie, I think that's smart reasoning, and a...Melodie, I think that's smart reasoning, and a good arrangement of priorities.<br /><br />Also, as with speaking engagements, free writing gigs can eventually become fee writing gigs.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-25788936735860769642015-06-27T11:38:44.740-04:002015-06-27T11:38:44.740-04:00Thanks, Dale. Market listings are like umbrellas ...Thanks, Dale. Market listings are like umbrellas and flashlights: the more you have, the better.<br /><br />One thing I didn't mention. Sometimes stories in "free" markets pay off in after-the-fact recognition. Our friend Liz Zelvin published a story in <i>Mysterical-E</i> (a non-paying e-zine) that was later shortlisted for an edition of Otto Penzler's <i>The Best American Mystery Stories</i>.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-88063640445243393452015-06-27T11:37:35.085-04:002015-06-27T11:37:35.085-04:00John, long ago, I came to the conclusion that you ...John, long ago, I came to the conclusion that you have to decide if you are writing to make a living, or if you are writing to get readers. I write with the hope that many people will read and enjoy my short stories and novels. If I can make a little money along the way, that's terrific. But it's secondary.Melodie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870938103759179132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-56439570095522857122015-06-27T11:08:24.683-04:002015-06-27T11:08:24.683-04:00Great post and, as always, great information!Great post and, as always, great information!Dale Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10553503281187956955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-19064142700976083612015-06-27T10:39:07.362-04:002015-06-27T10:39:07.362-04:00Quick correction: The six places I listed when tal...Quick correction: The six places I listed when talking about "paying markets" are paying markets for MYSTERY fiction. (And of course <i>Woman's World</i> buys romance stories as well.) John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-26895743710453020142015-06-27T10:15:58.742-04:002015-06-27T10:15:58.742-04:00You're right, Paul. For years now, I've k...You're right, Paul. For years now, I've kept lists of my stories with possible markets written beside each. And I try to keep a lot of different stories out to editors at any one time--when one gets rejected, I send it someplace else and send another story to the place that rejected it. Really long response times make this kind of thing even more important. <br /><br />Another thing I try to do is watch for "calls for submission" by anthologies. The good thing about anthologies is that those calls always have a deadline, and if you can write a story or have an existing story that you can submit during that sometimes-narrow window in time, your odds of getting published are better than they might be with a regular submission to a magazine. One obvious advantage is that there are always many authors who don't take the call or who don't even hear about it.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-35932658594893902182015-06-27T07:53:31.336-04:002015-06-27T07:53:31.336-04:00John, I think you bring up some good and provocati...John, I think you bring up some good and provocative points. It used to be – a long time ago, in the ancient 20th century – that a writer could make a fairly decent living selling short stories to various markets. But as we know that is no longer the case. What I would tell someone is to have more than one story to put out there. Try the paying markets first, then the more prestigious, and there are some, non-paying markets. But if you do have more than one story, several, you just keep rotating them around and hope eventually they all get picked up.Paul D. Markshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15466234708772287399noreply@blogger.com