tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post6760176703850222314..comments2024-03-19T05:28:00.356-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: First PersonLeigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-60322067574703697192013-07-16T20:13:31.503-04:002013-07-16T20:13:31.503-04:00I'll blow the horn here for Robert Bloch's...I'll blow the horn here for Robert Bloch's story "Yours Truly Jack The Ripper," a clever use of first person narration. Jeff Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00316081079528920123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-44800977386049384952013-07-16T15:31:41.568-04:002013-07-16T15:31:41.568-04:00I take Elizabeth's point about "spoilers&...I take Elizabeth's point about "spoilers" and the fact that identifying an "unreliable narrator" gives away the trick. I think Christie's use of the technique in Ackroyd is so well known that referring to it as such probably gives away nothing more than that which is already common knowledge among mystery buffs. I think the context of the narrative discussion vis-a-vis the other books in the post gives away nothing. The only possible exception to this, I think, is Gone Girl, but (again) the discussion of the narrative device there by the author herself is really wide-spread. And Terry -- these books are some of my favorites! By all means pack them for a vacation. One of the reasons I dealt with all of the books in one post is so as to highlight them without giving away too much of their plot. I HATE the normal book review process where the reviewer reveals 80% of the author's tricks before you have even opened the book! Dale Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10553503281187956955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-56591695786250705532013-07-16T15:19:48.714-04:002013-07-16T15:19:48.714-04:00Thanks for a thoughtful defense of the first perso...Thanks for a thoughtful defense of the first person point of view, which I've actually read described as a primitive or simplistic form of storytelling, a stage a writer goes through on the way to more serious work. You've shown that first person can be pretty complex. Plus, you've added to my vacation reading list.Terence Fahertyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05928381496296429254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-42793769593695887332013-07-16T14:55:28.313-04:002013-07-16T14:55:28.313-04:00Good post, Dale. I have three quibbles (or addenda...Good post, Dale. I have three quibbles (or addenda). One, nowadays a third-person novel with an omniscient narrator is the exception; the rule is "close third person," in which it's almost as important to tell only what the protagonist knows as in first person. Two, there are quite a number of wonderful unreliable-narrator mysteries. The catch is (and I've thought about this a lot) that if you say the narrator of a book is unreliable, it's already a spoiler and will ruin the impact on the reader you've told who hasn't already read it.<br />Three, anterograde amnesia isn't rare. It's the main symptom for Korsakoff syndrome (what used to be called "wet brain" colloquially), which is common among alcoholics (1 in 8 according to one source). The similar dementia in Alzheimer's patients is also a form of anterograde amnesia. It's as if the "record" button is broken in the affected person's mind, so any new experience is forgotten immediately. Elizabeth Zelvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13944424094949207841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-77207191443550593552013-07-16T13:20:28.196-04:002013-07-16T13:20:28.196-04:00I agree that biographies (particularly auto, that ...I agree that biographies (particularly auto, that is, the first person ones) are notoriously unreliable. As Benjamin Franklin wrote in his, "I dress differently for public than for private."Dale Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10553503281187956955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-23418519678091941462013-07-16T11:41:25.095-04:002013-07-16T11:41:25.095-04:00Unreliable narrators are all over history. Diarie...Unreliable narrators are all over history. Diaries are fascinating, but you cannot trust them: even Samuel Pepys didn't include ALL his philandering, and the Duc de St. Simon's presentation of political machinations that make 2013 look like kindergarten is cupped in his own moral rectitude. Memoirs and biographies are full of personal bias - for an example, read Trotsky's bio of Stalin, or whoever wrote the bio of Richard III which has been attributed to Thomas More. Personally, I assume any narrative is somewhat unreliable (it's the historian in me, or is it the pessimist? - humans are humans). But I kind of like that. It allows me to bring my own analysis to the game.Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-47479520770429864102013-07-16T10:11:41.740-04:002013-07-16T10:11:41.740-04:00I rememvber in the ieghth grade reading A SEPERATE...I rememvber in the ieghth grade reading A SEPERATE PEACE and being stunned when the teacher made a case for the unreliable narrator, although he didn't use that phrase. He argued that it was much more likely (by simple physics) that Phinney had shaken the branch then that the narrator had done it. It had never occurred to me that there could be another explanation for a book...Robert Loprestihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08844889305615182897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-27601541954593633652013-07-16T03:01:40.948-04:002013-07-16T03:01:40.948-04:00Dale, I’m sold on those books, particularly the fi...Dale, I’m sold on those books, particularly the first three. Thanks for bringing them to our attention.<br /><br />I think I’ve seen a crime thriller some time in the past in which the central character has anterograde amnesia. As I recall, he wrote notes on his arm so he could ‘remember’ what he needed to know.<br /><br />When it comes to 1st v 3rd person, I believe in the right tool for the job. I’ve seen first person misused, but done write, it offers a personal glimpse.Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.com