tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post6654244368352228360..comments2024-03-29T07:25:04.687-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: The Pitfalls of Being FirstLeigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-63098783878229941392019-07-01T19:08:37.586-04:002019-07-01T19:08:37.586-04:00Chiming in late, here.
Quick mention of some pers...Chiming in late, here.<br /><br />Quick mention of some personal preferences: I like to read either third- or first-person, I probably write more third-person stories than first-, I'm not crazy about reading present tense and never write in present tense, and I don't always like books that mix first and third (but sometimes they work). I've always thought it would be hard to write an entire series in first person and then write another series in third-, but I can't help thinking of Robert Parker, whose Spenser books were all first-person and whose Jesse Stone books were third. And I liked both series.<br /><br />Travis, I really enjoyed this. Great column!John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-60135534849933098202019-07-01T19:01:28.376-04:002019-07-01T19:01:28.376-04:00Don Winslow is one of the writers I had in mind in...Don Winslow is one of the writers I had in mind in my previous comment.<br /><br />The memory thing...I've never worried about it. Maybe it's willing suspension of disbelief--unless someone makes a big mistake that breaks the spell. As for the whole past/present/first/third issue, the writer should be good enough to do what she or he needs to do in order for the story to work. If you can make it work, I don't care how you did it (although I may go back and figure it out so I can steal it later). <br /><br />Henry James may have said it best: We must grant the artist his subject, his idea, his donnee: our criticism is applied only to what he makes of it...If we pretend to respect the artist at all, we must allow him his freedom of choice...<br /><br /> Steve Liskowhttp://www.steveliskow.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-60383263784366363282019-07-01T14:49:14.456-04:002019-07-01T14:49:14.456-04:00I think I realized the first person insane memory ...I think I realized the first person insane memory recall when reading Dracula as a kid. Diary entries from different people with tons of details I could never remember in a day. I've never considered Barb's point about the past tense happening seconds after the sentence was written. I was often under the impression they'd made it to the end and then recalled all that happened. That would keep things tense and moments of peril could still happen.<br />I forgot the Maltese Falcon was in third. Hammet's Red Harvest (which I love) and Thin Man are in first. I love Ide's books as well. A fresh take on the PI genre. <br />The play-by-play sports analogy is perfect for present tense. They call it as it happens in real time. I love what Don Winslow does third person present tense. He makes characters feel intimate like first while moving (often huge) stories a quick pace. <br />Regarding nailing a point home too often, I thought Crichton's Rising Sun should've been called The Japanese Are Coming! The Japanese are Coming! <br />Thank you for all the comments! Travis Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11921123586885981804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-35975322246632184222019-07-01T11:49:44.925-04:002019-07-01T11:49:44.925-04:00Welllll… Let's start with agreement. You'r...Welllll… Let's start with agreement. You're the first colleague I know who's less than charmed by Chandler. I read Dashiell Hammett about the 5th or 6th grade, the entire Continental Op and the Sam Spade stories. The librarian then recommended Chandler, which I found less than satisfying after Hammett. To wit: Marlowe lands a wealthy client and then whines when they turn out to be (surprise!) ungrateful losers.<br /><br />I do prefer past tense over present, whether 1st or 3rd person. 1st person past feels like we're sitting before a fire relating a tale. It sometimes takes me a few chapters to adjust to present tense.<br /><br />One of the worst examples was a best-seller Washington thriller that used the 'modern' technique of combining 3rd person with two different 1st person accounts, one of them documenting his own death in a dumpster. I never forgave the author for that.<br /><br />As for evangelizing, another Washington thriller portrayed Jimmy Carter as shrilly hectoring and abusing the White House staff. Jimmy Carter, really? Even Putin or Rove couldn't concoct fiction that bad.<br /><br />Well done article, Travis!<br />Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-89190913753961472482019-07-01T11:20:03.526-04:002019-07-01T11:20:03.526-04:00I think POV depends on the writer. True, the Malt...I think POV depends on the writer. True, the Maltese Falcon is in the 3rd person, but The Thin Man is in 1st person. Both are excellent. And the Continental Op can tell a pretty good tale, too. Hammett was very good.<br />So was Cain: he was a master at the first person past tense who was dying/about to die immediately after the book ends. But Mildred Pierce is also a masterpiece, and that's 3rd person. <br />Personally, either works for me. What I cannot stand is 1st person present tense, but that's just me.<br />Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-81076444025585728782019-07-01T10:22:07.141-04:002019-07-01T10:22:07.141-04:00Oops, I should have said that the book I mention w...Oops, I should have said that the book I mention which ends with the hero getting apparently killed is in first person. And come to think of it the first story I sold to AHMM ends with my narrator locked in a dark tomb waiting to either die or be rescued and arrested for murder.Robert Loprestihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08844889305615182897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-39578280645087659462019-07-01T10:19:39.556-04:002019-07-01T10:19:39.556-04:00Best private eye novels I have read in recent year...Best private eye novels I have read in recent years are in third person: Joe Ide and Lisa Sandlin. But I have no problem with first person.<br /><br />By the way, there is a not-great novel by a great mystery writer that ends with someone pointing a gun at the hero point blank and pulling the trigger. Title available on request.Robert Loprestihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08844889305615182897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-79875052319583477842019-07-01T09:30:41.742-04:002019-07-01T09:30:41.742-04:00To your point about total recall, unless the POV c...To your point about total recall, unless the POV character is clearly telling a story of what happened in the past, (sit down, Jimmy, and I'll tell you about the time I robbed a bank), then I don't think past tense stories are told from a distant past (be it a day or a decade). I think what happens in past tense happened just a second before it appeared on the page. That's what I learned somewhere along the way, and I've never heard it contradicted until now. It works for me. It might make reading past tense more enjoyable for you, easier to sink into, if you use that approach, Travis. Barb Goffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013123434790272424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-60802214692867001372019-07-01T08:40:33.053-04:002019-07-01T08:40:33.053-04:00Welcome to the club, Travis.
Whenever someone tel...Welcome to the club, Travis.<br /><br />Whenever someone tells me that "All" PI stories are in first person, I respond with "The Maltese Falcon." <br /><br />I've never understood the common dislike of present tense, either. Dickens used it 150 years ago and many of my favorite books and stories have used it more recently. I use it more often than not, along with multiple-third POV. <br /><br />You mention many instances where present tense prevails. I grew up listening to baseball games on the radio (and TV). All sports events occur in the present and it conveys the excitement of the competition.Steve Liskowhttp://www.steveliskow.comnoreply@blogger.com