tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post6551957779130197995..comments2024-03-29T04:38:14.302-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: No Sex Please – We’re Crime Writers! Leigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-2957356057552490782015-07-26T12:49:46.465-04:002015-07-26T12:49:46.465-04:00Great examples, Eve! I think Body Heat is the mos...Great examples, Eve! I think Body Heat is the most recent of those examples, and you nailed it. Noir is almost always about sex. Great discussion.Melodie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870938103759179132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-89258557044807722902015-07-26T12:35:15.428-04:002015-07-26T12:35:15.428-04:00To anyone who thinks that sex DOESN'T move the...To anyone who thinks that sex DOESN'T move the plot along in crime stories - haven't they ever read or seen "The Postman Always Rings Twice"? Sex moves every moment of that plot along. The same with "Body Heat", "Mildred Pierce", "Double Indemnity", and almost every noir ever written/filmed. Sex and greed: two of the mainstays of why people kill. Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-15017880207102179212015-07-25T22:44:46.828-04:002015-07-25T22:44:46.828-04:00Anne, that is a telling story. The publisher know...Anne, that is a telling story. The publisher knows the market best. For instance, I hate 'pulling back' on my humour, but sometimes I'm instructed to by my publisher, in order to better fit the aggregate market. Ditto, I guess, with naughty scenes.Melodie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870938103759179132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-28439691932414293582015-07-25T22:33:13.837-04:002015-07-25T22:33:13.837-04:00Yup. My publisher made me take out all sex scenes ...Yup. My publisher made me take out all sex scenes and any language stronger than "damn". At first I said WTF? But my editor explained that my target demographic is older educated women, and they want clever, not dirty. This was how they were "branding" my comic mysteries. <br /><br />And I have to admit it works. In fact one reviewer excerpted a whole romantic scene, which he loved because it was like a 1950s Doris Day movie seduction...except it was the woman making the moves. Anne R. Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02420000168356370825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-67664676167105100642015-07-25T15:12:31.517-04:002015-07-25T15:12:31.517-04:00Barb, I'm absolutely with you. I teach Crafti...Barb, I'm absolutely with you. I teach Crafting a Novel at college, and this is lesson 2. Melodie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870938103759179132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-55849938779851507192015-07-25T12:58:31.221-04:002015-07-25T12:58:31.221-04:00Hi B.K.! I've actually been on here over a ye...Hi B.K.! I've actually been on here over a year, but I cut back from once every two weeks to once a month starting this month. Usually I write comedy posts - this is a bit of a departure. (Okay, only partially. I can never be completely serious :)Melodie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870938103759179132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-71726448193539990962015-07-25T12:35:29.232-04:002015-07-25T12:35:29.232-04:00Melodie, welcome to the Saturday team! I'm not...Melodie, welcome to the Saturday team! I'm not exactly an old-timer here, since I started just two weeks ago, but I figure that's enough to earn me a spot on the welcoming committee. <br /><br />When writing about either sex or violence, I think it usually works best to keep the focus on what the characters are thinking and feeling, not on body parts or on blood and gore. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-59846657440806504232015-07-25T11:56:04.759-04:002015-07-25T11:56:04.759-04:00I think the question is if it's filler. Everyt...I think the question is if it's filler. Everything should advance the plot. A sex scene can advance the plot just as much as a shoot-out can. If a scene could be completely deleted without affecting the plot at all, then it should come out, whether it's a sex scene or any other kind of scene. If a scene is only used to expand on character, I would find another place to do that, somewhere the plot is being advanced.Barb Goffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013123434790272424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-77125230709714320842015-07-25T11:17:11.153-04:002015-07-25T11:17:11.153-04:00In my YA mystery series I don't even go there,...In my YA mystery series I don't even go there, but my contemporary series for sure has a bit of sex. Not romance novel level sex, I never refer to anyone's 'member' but the reality of sex in a normal life ... I don't think it should be verboten in adult fiction.Angelahttp://aportiaadamsadventure.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-65899538445017281442015-07-25T11:16:00.729-04:002015-07-25T11:16:00.729-04:00Not to mention, you can have clues in a sex scene....Not to mention, you can have clues in a sex scene. Something someone thinks about. A flash of memory. Or something someone says. You have to pay attention.Barb Goffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013123434790272424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-23364475811630876072015-07-25T10:50:46.973-04:002015-07-25T10:50:46.973-04:00I am definitely going to look up that book, Rob! ...I am definitely going to look up that book, Rob! grin. <br />But seriously, character provides motivation. Relationships are key. Works for me.Melodie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870938103759179132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-16977387674048009422015-07-25T10:43:41.995-04:002015-07-25T10:43:41.995-04:00A friend of mine compliAined that she had to read ...A friend of mine compliAined that she had to read the sex scene in my first. novel twice to see if anything actually happened. In my new book, Greenfellas, available now at fine bookstores- sorry. Where was I? Oh yes, in that book, there are several sex scenes but they tend to end just as things are beginning or begin just as things are, uh, finishing. And they tend to be less about plot than about character. Robert Loprestihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08844889305615182897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-37089935736640455122015-07-25T10:41:59.041-04:002015-07-25T10:41:59.041-04:00Barb, I think you've hit the nail on the head....Barb, I think you've hit the nail on the head. So often, what happens in those scenes provides motivation for what comes next. I think what baffles me is the way crime writers are quick to show graphic sexual violence in their books. That seems to be accepted. I almost wonder if it goes back to the ole "sex is bad" belief; show it as being bad and that is okay. Melodie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870938103759179132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-76289488544406906532015-07-25T10:33:16.777-04:002015-07-25T10:33:16.777-04:00Thelma, you have no idea how I needed that, right ...Thelma, you have no idea how I needed that, right now. Bless you.Melodie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870938103759179132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-5738313957551300902015-07-25T10:11:15.222-04:002015-07-25T10:11:15.222-04:00I agree with you, Melodie. I have an unpublished n...I agree with you, Melodie. I have an unpublished novel with sex scenes, and every one of them that moves the plot forward. But a member of my writing group (who I adore, in case she reads this) told me that she skipped reading at least some of those scenes because surely sex couldn't move the plot forward and thus it was a waste of her time. (My comments notwithstanding.) I wonder if some crime readers think this way and skip over sex scenes and then find themselves confused or ... unsatisfied at the book's ending because they don't know what they missed.Barb Goffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013123434790272424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-15421101262508896092015-07-25T08:47:58.247-04:002015-07-25T08:47:58.247-04:00You are simply wonderful! Thelma Straw in Manhatta...You are simply wonderful! Thelma Straw in ManhattanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-7402003176744369822015-07-25T07:55:56.234-04:002015-07-25T07:55:56.234-04:00Leigh, that is exactly the thing that baffles me. ...Leigh, that is exactly the thing that baffles me. In North America we seem to celebrate violence in our books and movies, and carefully restrict sex. Europe appears to do the opposite.Melodie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870938103759179132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-77134771133303640942015-07-25T00:24:11.446-04:002015-07-25T00:24:11.446-04:00I'm a believer that if sex (or anything else) ...I'm a believer that if sex (or anything else) is essential to the plot or characterization, then by all means it should be included. If it's gratuitous, then it shouldn't. Why do some who pore over every grisly detail of a brutal murder turn squeamish about sex?Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.com