tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post6110010889401334594..comments2024-03-27T23:53:59.771-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: Second ChancesLeigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-88481511990955900982022-10-16T14:41:12.353-04:002022-10-16T14:41:12.353-04:00Anonymous, I've heard nothing but good things ...Anonymous, I've heard nothing but good things about Stan Schmidt, and I can only say I wish he HAD asked me for rewrites--I wound up only with rejections from Analog. And yes, the good editors can definitely make our stories stronger. Congrats to you on those revisions and acceptances.<br /><br />Thanks for stopping in at SleuthSayers!John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-17632044670191935312022-10-16T14:17:29.470-04:002022-10-16T14:17:29.470-04:00Twice I have been told to rewrite a story to get i...Twice I have been told to rewrite a story to get it accepted. Stan Schmidt at Analog back in the day had me rewrite a story twice, and one of those times, he told me to put more conflict in the climax. Both editors who asked for rewrites pointed out things that needed fixing to make the story stronger. I appreciated working with them both.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-14958681126657979072022-10-15T15:40:45.863-04:002022-10-15T15:40:45.863-04:00Ha! Bob, sounds like your title was fine from the ...Ha! Bob, sounds like your title was fine from the get-go. <br /><br />Unfortunately for me, the only times editors have suggested a different title from mine was when I really really liked my title. Go figure.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-41424479565016335022022-10-15T15:24:08.409-04:002022-10-15T15:24:08.409-04:00An editor once told me he didn't like my title...An editor once told me he didn't like my title. I agreed. I really didn't like the title, either, but couldn't come up with anything else. I told him whatever title he chose with would be fine with me. <br />The story was printed with my original title.<br />Bobrjpetyohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01456461141590991475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-30508330085314293402022-10-15T15:07:09.656-04:002022-10-15T15:07:09.656-04:00Barb, I think the key is to choose your battles. I...Barb, I think the key is to choose your battles. I can't see arguing with an editor about something that honestly just doesn't matter that much--besides the fact that the ed. probably really does know more than the writer, in most of these cases.<br /><br />Seriously, thank you for all the stories of mine that you have made BETTER, over the years.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-46564218827690478412022-10-15T14:51:06.863-04:002022-10-15T14:51:06.863-04:00Thanks for the kind words, Eve and John. And John,...Thanks for the kind words, Eve and John. And John, good column. I too like to be agreeable. I hope that by accepting nearly all editorial suggestions, editors will be more agreeable at the times I want to demur.Barb Goffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013123434790272424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-83267274164818662692022-10-15T13:24:35.669-04:002022-10-15T13:24:35.669-04:00Sounds like the revising was worth it, Michael. Sh...Sounds like the revising was worth it, Michael. She's asked me to change things twice, I think, and I did it right away, chop chop. When she (and Janet too) want changes, I hop to it.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-9297516380368552672022-10-15T13:17:43.650-04:002022-10-15T13:17:43.650-04:00The first story I sold to AHMM is one that Linda L...The first story I sold to AHMM is one that Linda Landrigan had me rewrite twice. She liked the beginning and the end but the middle didn't work. She was right, and the story is much, much better for the revisions. Michael Brackenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01072019804281421944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-18615993471263583692022-10-15T12:05:12.378-04:002022-10-15T12:05:12.378-04:00Ha! Good idea, Liz--if you don't like a change...Ha! Good idea, Liz--if you don't like a change that was requested and made in your story (or poem), just read the original version in a public reading! And I must agree with you, on the Godfrey nickname. Glad you restored (resurrected??) it to its original form in later sales!! Sometimes the editor, no matter how famous and respected, is NOT right.<br /><br />Thanks as always!John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-4281827910542622702022-10-15T11:58:26.221-04:002022-10-15T11:58:26.221-04:00John, for me the key words in this piece were &quo...John, for me the key words in this piece were "I still remember." I still remember every single time an editor made me make a change I didn't like but did because, as you say, we all want to be published and considered easy to work with. One that leaps to mind is "changed" for "traded in" in my first poetry book in 1981 because the editor "liked 'changed' better. It ruined the cadence of the line, so I've said "traded in" every time I've read the poem aloud for forty years. Another is when legendary editor Ruth Cavin wouldn't accept "God" as the nickname of chief victim Godfrey Brandon Kettleworth III in DEATH WILL GET YOU SOBER, my first novel. ("Hi, I'm God, I'm an alcoholic.") Ruth, who was 90 at the time, was afraid it would alienate readers. I persisted, but Ruth Cavin was God at St. Martin's at that time (Minotaur didn't exist yet), so after she said No three times, I gave in. People who've read the hardcover think Godfrey's nickname was Guff. But the substitute has never passed my lips, and when I sold the e-book rights to another publisher (all rights later reverted to me), I was incredibly relieved to make the change.Elizabeth Zelvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13944424094949207841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-89938907782101187382022-10-15T11:36:36.629-04:002022-10-15T11:36:36.629-04:00Good choice, Eve! That's one of those cases (w...Good choice, Eve! That's one of those cases (which I think are rare) where an editor is NOT acting in your best interests regarding changes, etc. It's obvious here that you new far more than she did about the quality of the stories. Also, there was more at stake here because it was an entire collection and not just one story for a magazine sale, etc.<br /><br />As for Barb, Josh, and Michael, yes, I trust all three of them and have always gone with their editorial decisions. I wish all editors were as smart and professional as those three.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-82698830657379513652022-10-15T11:23:18.501-04:002022-10-15T11:23:18.501-04:00Eve, good for you. With some "editors" ...Eve, good for you. With some "editors" the mystery is, How did they get their job?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-11563131662801259912022-10-15T11:14:47.641-04:002022-10-15T11:14:47.641-04:00I've been edited by our own Barb Goffman, Josh...I've been edited by our own Barb Goffman, Josh Pachtler, and Michael Bracken. All of whom made suggestions and comments that seemed good to me, especially about "Bad Influence" which is coming out in our upcoming SleuthSayers anthology. (The main problem with that one was that I assumed people had prior knowledge of my Laskin world, and I agree that was a mistake.) <br /><br />The only time I completely rejected editorial comments was working with a small private publishing company to put together a collection of my short stories. They hired an editor who proceeded to tell me to rewrite every single story as she wanted them to be rewritten (all of which had been published in AHMM), including one of my personal pride & joys, "Drifts", which Michael Bracken took years ago without a single editing comment, and so did Linda Landrigan, later when the anthology fell through. I refused, and cancelled the collection. Never regretted that. Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-40171054635569590262022-10-15T11:13:23.945-04:002022-10-15T11:13:23.945-04:00Hey Dale. I'm not surprised that you've ha...Hey Dale. I'm not surprised that you've had some interesting experiences with EQMM, given your background and track record with them. Sounds as if Janet's suggestions were right on, and that you were smart to agree to make those revisions. As I mentioned earlier, when those kinds of changes are made at the request of a respected editor, I almost always agree--they often make the story better.<br /><br />I make plenty of stupid mistakes, and I too like to be told about them. Your observation's interesting, though, because I've heard others say too that certain mistakes can be blamed on the character! Ain't fiction great??John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-72943405204138923322022-10-15T11:07:15.205-04:002022-10-15T11:07:15.205-04:00Glad that worked out. That's a good thing to d...Glad that worked out. That's a good thing to do if you feel strongly enough about it, or if you felt the editor was badly wrong. As you said, there was probably a lot of debate about it before the response anyway, so it sounds as if the editor might've had some opposition in the ranks. <br /><br />If a story's good enough, it'll find the right home.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-25011696857752853452022-10-15T10:31:21.351-04:002022-10-15T10:31:21.351-04:00Nice piece, John!
Some personal experiences along...Nice piece, John!<br /><br />Some personal experiences along the same lines. After I submitted "Four Words," one of my Ellery Queen pastiches, to EQMM editor Janet Hutchings accepted the story but asked that I consider allowing a character who died in the original draft to instead live on. I agreed and re-wrote the ending. On re-submission she noted that the change in fact strengthened the story -- a conclusion with which I agreed. By contrast when I submitted "The Book Case," an earlier EQ pastiche that was novella length, Janet suggested doing away with a chronological listing of every Ellery Queen book that appeared in the early pages of the story. While the list took up some space I couldn't agree to get rid of it since the listing contained an important clue to the outcome of the mystery. I have also had one story rejected with a note saying the setting was good but there were problems with the mystery itself. I did a complete re-write, changing just about everything in the story except the setting, and on second submission the story, "The Mad Hatter's Riddle," was accepted. <br /><br />I have also been alerted to "stupid mistakes" that unwittingly pop into the narrative. I actually very much like receiving such comments since if I have made a stupid mistake so, too, might the character. In these occasions I leave the "stupid mistake" in and fashion it into yet another clue in solving the mystery at hand.Dale Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10553503281187956955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-72353623768940546732022-10-15T10:24:56.314-04:002022-10-15T10:24:56.314-04:00Once I was challenged to rewrite a story. The bos...Once I was challenged to rewrite a story. The boss editor said what he thought was wrong. I speculated that there was an internal disagreement because the response took over twice as long as they promised. This was a story I was sure of as is. I thanked the editor for his time and consideration and submitted the story unchanged the next day at another site. It was accepted without criticism within 24 hours and published soon after.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-19290577815982490922022-10-15T09:05:40.604-04:002022-10-15T09:05:40.604-04:00Good for you, Mary Jo. I do the same. This issue, ...Good for you, Mary Jo. I do the same. This issue, next issue, doesn't matter. To me, a request for revision is usually just a delayed acceptance, and a lot better than a rejection. Cheers back to you--thanks for stopping in.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-24033510691554251652022-10-15T08:51:09.687-04:002022-10-15T08:51:09.687-04:00Hi John, I've been asked to rewrite, to change...Hi John, I've been asked to rewrite, to change something or other and told maybe in the next issue. I too want to please the editor so I revise.Please keep me posted on Sleuthsayers. Cheers, Mary JoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-13760859952324404852022-10-15T08:07:52.587-04:002022-10-15T08:07:52.587-04:00Hi Leigh. I agree. And in editors' defense, so...Hi Leigh. I agree. And in editors' defense, sometimes a title change is requested because a similar title was used in a recent story at that publication, something of which the writer might even not be aware. <br /><br />I can think of several titles of mine that I felt were better before a change was made, but very honestly, I can also think of a time or two when I agreed that the editor's suggested title worked better than mine. One of those things that, again, might not be worth arguing about.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-26176062336349838702022-10-15T01:02:08.687-04:002022-10-15T01:02:08.687-04:00I can think of only one or two things, John. One w...I can think of only one or two things, John. One was changing the title– and why not? Sometimes those words are merely a working title that guide you through the writig process.Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.com