tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post5908138987293453740..comments2024-03-19T05:28:00.356-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: Short Story or Novel?Leigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-34376550443022642202017-03-14T11:50:36.891-04:002017-03-14T11:50:36.891-04:00Leigh, I think some of Wharton's own short sto...Leigh, I think some of Wharton's own short stories show us how to develop memorable, fascinating characters in a relatively few pages. (I can't weigh in on Lily Bart because I've never read House of Mirth.) And you're right--John may set the record for creating delightful characters in record time. I can't quite agree about Sayers, though, because I love both her stories and her novels. The only one that seems to drag for me is Five Red Herrings--and I think that's her shortest.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-34160513630716104842017-03-13T15:32:04.168-04:002017-03-13T15:32:04.168-04:00Bonnie, thinking more about Wharton’s view, charac...Bonnie, thinking more about Wharton’s view, characterization is important to series short stories in a way that might not be critical to one-off writers and readers. Think how much we learned about Sherlock Holmes through Doyle’s short stories. I actually prefer Dorothy Sayers’ Lord Peter shorts to her novels, because her novels sometimes drag at times when tension should rise. The crackling little short-shorts John Floyd writes for <i>Woman’s World</i> manage to sneak in bits of character despite a dire word count. And damn Wharton anyway. I’m still crushed she killed off Lily Bart.<br />Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-10967310888238954092017-03-13T13:41:10.313-04:002017-03-13T13:41:10.313-04:00Thanks, Carol--I'm glad you enjoyed the story....Thanks, Carol--I'm glad you enjoyed the story. And I agree with you about characterization. Some stories are memorable for their plots more than their characters, but even then the story's likely to fall flat unless it has at least one character readers will find real and/or intriguing.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-55295118659609527192017-03-13T12:51:21.051-04:002017-03-13T12:51:21.051-04:00I remember the blue glass story. Nice allegory.
T...I remember the blue glass story. Nice allegory.<br /><br />To me a story, any story deserving of the name, also deserves some form of characterization. Else it's just an anecdote.Carol D.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-49123301930842564802017-03-12T13:29:34.647-04:002017-03-12T13:29:34.647-04:00I'll watch for your March 29 post, R.T. Thanks...I'll watch for your March 29 post, R.T. Thanks for alerting us.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-58275169837180571602017-03-12T13:18:51.792-04:002017-03-12T13:18:51.792-04:00Thank you, Georgia! I appreciate that. I thought t...Thank you, Georgia! I appreciate that. I thought there was an interesting range of opinions that connected or collided at several points.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-6667272291720511702017-03-12T13:18:27.809-04:002017-03-12T13:18:27.809-04:00Bonnie, a good thought provoking article. Interest...Bonnie, a good thought provoking article. Interestingly enough, my March 26th blog coming up in two weeks will provide some of my own thoughts on short stories, novels and money. It's all in how you look at it, and everyone sees it different.R.T. Lawtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523486296396710227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-69066912590647466132017-03-12T13:11:46.996-04:002017-03-12T13:11:46.996-04:00Bonnie, your post was not too long. It was complet...Bonnie, your post was not too long. It was complete.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06132868985560402724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-58818180546991754632017-03-12T10:40:37.018-04:002017-03-12T10:40:37.018-04:00Thanks, Linda. The post may have been too long--af...Thanks, Linda. The post may have been too long--after I'd drafted it, I decided I should cut one of the authors but couldn't bring myself to leave any of them out. For example, I found Gardner's suggestion about working backwards from a climax really interesting--I may try that approach soon.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-38802572897147960972017-03-12T10:36:20.097-04:002017-03-12T10:36:20.097-04:00John, I've read quite a few novels that might ...John, I've read quite a few novels that might have worked as short stories but definitely felt stretched thin as novels. And I think Art Taylor took an interesting approach by writing a series of linked stories for two characters begging to be developed in more depth.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-3191182325411832472017-03-12T00:49:41.023-05:002017-03-12T00:49:41.023-05:00Great Post thanks for sharing your thoughts on the...Great Post thanks for sharing your thoughts on the differences between ideas for novels vs short stories. Bowen's and O'Connor's quotes were great. Linda Cahillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17270796596602675104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-71325491728508308282017-03-11T23:45:50.649-05:002017-03-11T23:45:50.649-05:00What a great post, Bonnie!! Like a couple of the ...What a great post, Bonnie!! Like a couple of the other commenters, I enjoy writing shorts far more than novels, though I love reading both. Personally, I've read some short stories that I think would've made good novels and a lot of novels that I think should probably have been short stories instead.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-59514836229318467372017-03-11T20:23:51.409-05:002017-03-11T20:23:51.409-05:00Leigh, I was surprised by some of Edith Wharton...Leigh, I was surprised by some of Edith Wharton's comments, too. She seems almost to denigrate short stories, but today she's probably remembered more for her stories than for her novels. (That's just a guess--I have no proof.) And I can probably also guess one of the SleuthSayers you have in mind, but not the second. All I know for sure is that I'm not making a living from short stories. (Or from novels--not that I made much of a living from decades of adjunct teaching, either. Thank goodness my husband is gainfully employed.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-59630019434322703042017-03-11T19:31:51.359-05:002017-03-11T19:31:51.359-05:00I'm a little surprised by Edith Wharton's ...I'm a little surprised by Edith Wharton's observation, but she certainly made her characters come alive… even when they died.<br /><br />I bet we have one (or perhaps two) SleuthSayers who make a living from short stories. It not only takes prolific writing, but also superb business skills. We can only admire.Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-87325265440336651122017-03-11T19:11:43.864-05:002017-03-11T19:11:43.864-05:00John, I love that comment, and I love Somerset Mau...John, I love that comment, and I love Somerset Maugham. I went through a serious Somerset Maugham stage when I was in high school, reading Of Human Bondage (I decided--briefly--that it was my favorite novel of all time)and many of his short stories. More recently, I read The Summing Up and loved it. What a wonderful, down-to-earth writer!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-56652810724221803852017-03-11T18:52:53.031-05:002017-03-11T18:52:53.031-05:00The lack of consensus by writers on short story vs...The lack of consensus by writers on short story vs. novel reminds me of Somerset Maugham's famous comment: "There are three rules for writing a novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."jrlindermuthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09204855909246670628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-15938401373952263352017-03-11T18:00:14.257-05:002017-03-11T18:00:14.257-05:00Thank you, Jacquie. I enjoy experimenting with sho...Thank you, Jacquie. I enjoy experimenting with short stories, too, more than I do with novels. (Not that I'm any expert on novels--I've written a bunch, but published only two.) In particular, I've had fun with short-story protagonists who are deeply flawed, not very likable, or both. Readers might not want to put to put up with them through an entire novel--I might not, either--but it can be interesting to see what they do in a short story.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-1305877810003405192017-03-11T16:37:21.056-05:002017-03-11T16:37:21.056-05:00Bonnie,
I'm very much impressed with your blo...Bonnie,<br /><br />I'm very much impressed with your blog which deserves to be a university lecture. My mother was a lot like yours. When I handed her my first novel to read, she admitted neither liking nor understanding it. It was a literary work that I put away in a drawer. She was probably right. First novels are not usually our best work. However, we do learn from them. As to short stories vs. novels, for some of my short fiction I've earned more than from some of my novels. It all depends.<br /><br />I tend to experiment more with short fiction than novels. I take chances with theme, point of view, character and even plot. I'm more traditional with novels. I don't respect one genre more than the other. They simply require different styles and needs. I enjoy writing both.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Jacqueline Seewaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09177500620940251009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-78985302765322757842017-03-11T14:42:34.648-05:002017-03-11T14:42:34.648-05:00Elizabeth, I think mothers (and fathers)often have...Elizabeth, I think mothers (and fathers)often have trouble understanding and accepting the choices their children make. My own experiences as a mother have taught me that. It's hard not to think we know what's best for people we love so much, hard not to try to get them to do the things we think will make them happy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-73740418725525734462017-03-11T14:23:26.589-05:002017-03-11T14:23:26.589-05:00I found the disagreements interesting, too, Gayle,...I found the disagreements interesting, too, Gayle, and I thought some of the opinions (Gardner's and Bowen's, for example) reflected the author's preference for one form or another. You should have also mentioned your book/workbook (also called Anatomy of a Short Story)--I think people thinking about experimenting with short stories would find it very helpful.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-65446017998378701592017-03-11T13:08:47.240-05:002017-03-11T13:08:47.240-05:00Thanks for your comment, Robin. I think it provide...Thanks for your comment, Robin. I think it provides more evidence that different writers have different inclinations and take different approaches. Just as some writers prefer one length or another, some find outlining an enjoyable challenge in itself, and some find it a chore. I outline for both stories and novels but feel free to depart from the outline if new possibilities occur to me as I'm writing. That approach seems to work best for me, but I'm sure many others would hate it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-13781344171771203982017-03-11T13:01:47.783-05:002017-03-11T13:01:47.783-05:00Our mothers are/were "ladies of a certain age...Our mothers are/were "ladies of a certain age" ... mine refused to read the first short story I had published because it contained the "F" word. Actually I don't think she has read any of my fiction at all.Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00239163766419735693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-19931019493968121142017-03-11T13:00:25.136-05:002017-03-11T13:00:25.136-05:00I'm glad those writers disagree. How boring it...I'm glad those writers disagree. How boring it would be if all writers wrote the same way and thought the same way. Since I write both short stories and novels, and even teach a class on The Anatomy of a Short Story, I have my opinion. Mine happens to be what Aristotle said in The Poetics. Stories (long and short) have five basic elements: plot, character, dialogue, setting, and the meaning of the story. Short stories just don't take as many detours getting to their destination. As for turning your short story into a novel, if you have more to say in the story it will make a great novel. Interesting and thought provoking post, Bk.GBPoolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12190573764848658894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-26197286651376417612017-03-11T12:56:02.038-05:002017-03-11T12:56:02.038-05:00i am intimidated by short stories. When I write, I...i am intimidated by short stories. When I write, I go where the story takes me. In order to keep a short story both short and worth the read, I think I would have to have a complete outline before getting started. That doesn't seem like fun, and I want to keep writing fun. I already have to do enough content creation - which is nowhere near as fun as writing mysteries.Robinhttp://rldonovan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-86454820582246838502017-03-11T11:37:12.838-05:002017-03-11T11:37:12.838-05:00Eve, I think my mother was proud of me, too. When ...Eve, I think my mother was proud of me, too. When we went through her house after she passed away, we found that she'd saved every story I'd ever given her. Another relative, though--and maybe I'd better not identify her in more specific terms--could be a lot harsher. Whenever I said that I had a new story in AHMM, she'd say something such as, "Does anyone actually read that magazine? I never see it for sale anywhere." or "Do you have to pay them to publish your stories? How much do they charge you?" No matter how often I answered her questions,she kept finding new ways to say essentially the same things. Long ago, I stopped telling her anything about my writing. Visits got pleasanter then.<br /><br />I hope you do turn that story into a novel. Maybe, some day, we can compare our experiences.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.com