tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post5844704213544627599..comments2024-03-18T19:00:03.047-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: Pay to Play?--A New Look at an Old QuestionLeigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-2372188532083439802023-05-24T15:40:56.038-04:002023-05-24T15:40:56.038-04:00Yeah, but I still have the book!Yeah, but I still have the book!Jeff Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00316081079528920123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-22628332261842879042023-05-24T09:43:10.657-04:002023-05-24T09:43:10.657-04:00Hey Jeff! I remember those places. I never sent a ...Hey Jeff! I remember those places. I never sent a poem to them when I was starting out, but yes, I sure considered it. I had heard a member of a little writers' group I was in bragging about having had one of her poems published in one of those "national" books of poetry, and when I asked one of the older members about it afterward he said to me, "Look, kid--" (I was in my mid-forties at the time) "--don't send ANYthing to that place. They publish everything that gets submitted to them, and then charge you an arm and a leg to buy the book." I never forgot that.<br /><br />Live and learn, right?John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-14121158801479250572023-05-23T04:46:55.787-04:002023-05-23T04:46:55.787-04:00I think every beginning writer considers sending a...I think every beginning writer considers sending a poem to one of those pay to play books! (I did! It did get published but I'll be damned if I'm going to shell out what they want for more copies of that book! Wow this may have been fifteen years ago!)Jeff Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00316081079528920123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-87428994979033933212023-05-20T18:33:52.310-04:002023-05-20T18:33:52.310-04:00Hi Annie. Thanks for stopping in, and for mentioni...Hi Annie. Thanks for stopping in, and for mentioning the royalty-share approach. As for how many submissions are involved and/or how many slots are open, I doubt that info is ever made available to the hopeful writer.<br /><br />The argument that charging submission fees is somehow justified based on money "no longer being spent" on envelopes, postage, etc. is one that I've only heard a few times, and I agree that it's absurd. Another stupid reason is that the charging of such fees "will discourage others who probably aren't serious about writing." I'm plenty serious about writing, and it discourages me right out of considering those places as a possible market.<br /><br />What a crazy issue. John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-31317047887080320512023-05-20T18:12:58.667-04:002023-05-20T18:12:58.667-04:00And now he's made me laugh twice.And now he's made me laugh twice.N. M. Cedenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16486398629332034580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-25742717902049419052023-05-20T16:58:48.517-04:002023-05-20T16:58:48.517-04:00I subscribe to the "money flows to the writer...I subscribe to the "money flows <i>to</i> the writer" philosophy. I don't pay reading fees or submission fees. Anthologies or small press magazines can be published on a royalty share basis these days with the publisher getting an extra cut of the royalty share to help defray costs. Granted, that might not be an extra cut of a whole lot of money depending on sales, but it's that way with all professional publishing businesses. With royalty share, all the parties involved--writers and publishers--have a vested interest in making the publication successful. Charging writers fees up front just to submit a story that probably won't be accepted (depending on how many submissions vs. how many open slots still available) strikes me the wrong way.<br /><br />As for submission fees being somewhat equal to the bad old days when writers paid for printing, postage, and return postage costs, the publication wasn't getting that money to begin with back then, were they. It's apples vs. oranges, and not really a justification for charging reading fees.<br />Annie Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12347098268983417506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-84884213471874850392023-05-20T15:46:49.934-04:002023-05-20T15:46:49.934-04:00Melodie, you are correct, and I like that quote. B...Melodie, you are correct, and I like that quote. But just check the writers' guidelines of many, and I mean *many*, of the current literary magazines, and they indeed require a fee to submit stories to them. My conclusion is, they are either not professional markets after all, or they are acting in an unprofessional way. (I'm not even sure I should claim to be a professional writer, but I am sure they won't be getting any money from me.)<br /><br />Hope you're doing well, up there. Thanks as always for your thoughts!John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-35766725327322166212023-05-20T15:20:01.179-04:002023-05-20T15:20:01.179-04:00I'm reminded by something a mentor said to me,...I'm reminded by something a mentor said to me, back in the 90s: "If you are a professional, then people pay *you* to read your work." I've always figured that professional markets know that, and would never ask for money from an author. Melodie Campbellhttp://www.melodiecampbell.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-66057759643747333232023-05-20T13:40:30.036-04:002023-05-20T13:40:30.036-04:00Elizabeth, I too once paid the fees (maybe four or...Elizabeth, I too once paid the fees (maybe four or five times, maybe a couple dollars each--I'm ashamed now that I did it), and never ONCE did they buy my stories. And I too forget the names of the places involved. Good for you, by the way, on the contest wins! I bet those prizes made you feel even better because you didn't pay entry fees.<br /><br />Thank you as always for stopping in at SleuthSayers. <br />John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-28476824484751875332023-05-20T13:35:16.569-04:002023-05-20T13:35:16.569-04:00See, Noreen? I warned you!See, Noreen? I warned you!John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-76939378739344351112023-05-20T13:22:27.992-04:002023-05-20T13:22:27.992-04:00I did pay a reading fee once, back in the last cen...I did pay a reading fee once, back in the last century. Of course they didn't buy my story & I don't even remember now what magazine it was. I've won a couple of writing contests with small cash prizes, but I didn't pay anything to submit.Elizabeth Dearbornnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-21210903036033444812023-05-20T13:14:37.477-04:002023-05-20T13:14:37.477-04:00Please do not make me feel annoyed.
Let Noreen la...Please do not make me feel annoyed. <br />Let Noreen laugh, oh, Johnny Floyd. Josh Pachternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-16641795392338108612023-05-20T13:13:33.369-04:002023-05-20T13:13:33.369-04:00Good for you, Philip! I wish I could say I couldn&...Good for you, Philip! I wish I could say I couldn't remember ever paying those fees, but I did a few times in my first few months of submitting stories, in the mid-90s. But as I mentioned earlier, it was to no avail, and I learned my lesson fast.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-90007880476848051992023-05-20T13:07:48.027-04:002023-05-20T13:07:48.027-04:00Hi Steve. I agree. And a $20 entry fee--boy that&#...Hi Steve. I agree. And a $20 entry fee--boy that's a lot. You're right, those would add up fast. To me, it doesn't even matter anymore how much the fee is--if they charge anything at all, I don't submit a story to them.<br /><br />Glad to hear your "tangent," and I'm sure Susan was, too. All of us remember our first professional story sales, and those who made them possible.<br /><br />Thanks as always, Steve, for the comment. John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-81440873240376161952023-05-20T13:00:37.122-04:002023-05-20T13:00:37.122-04:00Don't laugh at him, Noreen--it just "eggs...Don't laugh at him, Noreen--it just "eggs" him on!John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-83776297699439572732023-05-20T12:58:50.947-04:002023-05-20T12:58:50.947-04:00I can't remember paying a submission fee to an...I can't remember paying a submission fee to anyone. I don't submit much to third parties and if they use it, I expect to get paid.Philip Cumberlandhttps://fenlandphil.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-63210578794325400182023-05-20T12:56:36.151-04:002023-05-20T12:56:36.151-04:00Me either, Josh. (One order of GE&H, comin'...Me either, Josh. (One order of GE&H, comin' up.)John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-33921042048009292712023-05-20T12:33:53.465-04:002023-05-20T12:33:53.465-04:00This made me laugh out loud, and I wholeheartedly ...This made me laugh out loud, and I wholeheartedly agree.N. M. Cedenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16486398629332034580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-34656170499696145512023-05-20T12:26:02.344-04:002023-05-20T12:26:02.344-04:00I used to pay the fee for some contests until I di...I used to pay the fee for some contests until I did the arithmetic. A twenty-dollar submission fee for a $250 prize added up to a scam. Thirteen entries would pay for it, so where was the rest of the money going? I don't remember the last time I paid a submission fee or a reading fee now, but it's been several years. I wrote the story. You want to buy it, so I should get the money. Period.<br /><br />On a tangent here, but I want to mention it. Susan Oleksiw was co-publisher of Level Best Books when I first began to write seriously and submit stories. She, Kate Flora and Ruth McCarthy gave me my first three (or four?) publishing credits. They arranged signings for all the writers in their annual collection at Crime Bake, too. For a newbie, that was a tremendous boost. Steve Liskowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07107703903536520140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-70729613019890954652023-05-20T12:20:24.271-04:002023-05-20T12:20:24.271-04:00I will not ever pay a fee.
No way, no how, they’re...I will not ever pay a fee.<br />No way, no how, they’re not for me. <br />A fee, to me, is just a scam. <br />I’d rather eat green eggs and ham. Josh Pachterhttp://joshpachter.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-16025711341049444682023-05-20T11:53:17.275-04:002023-05-20T11:53:17.275-04:00I'm with you, Bob. As for contests, I usually ...I'm with you, Bob. As for contests, I usually get a lot of objections anytime I say I won't pay a contest entry fee, but I absolutely refuse to. (Would you pay a fee to audition for a play or interview for a job?) And I'm not a fan of contests anyway--I'd much rather send a marketable story to a magazine or anthology than to a contest.<br /><br />As for sending stories to nonpaying markets, I have done that from time to time, and will probably continue to, if I know and respect the editor--but like you, I usually try to get paid at least something for what I write. I think there are a lot of writers who agree with us on that.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-42499228722473641472023-05-20T11:21:10.170-04:002023-05-20T11:21:10.170-04:00I will never pay a fee to submit a short story, ev...I will never pay a fee to submit a short story, even for "contests." Just as I am very reluctant (though I won't say "never" and have done so in the past) to submit to non paying markets. Even a tiny payment is worth it for me. And as far as those small paying markets go, they get a return on their investment in me when I buy copies of their magazine/anthology.<br />Bobrjpetyohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01456461141590991475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-31648029606149111682023-05-20T10:14:54.496-04:002023-05-20T10:14:54.496-04:00I wasn't far ahead of you! And I can remember,...I wasn't far ahead of you! And I can remember, to this day, what that AH acceptance did for my confidence as a writer.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-41455889189834918642023-05-20T10:11:17.538-04:002023-05-20T10:11:17.538-04:00Hey Susan. First, good for you, for taking on that...Hey Susan. First, good for you, for taking on that publishing endeavor. We both know those projects seldom last five years, so it sounds as if you and your friend did a good job--and I'm sure you learned a lot from the experience. And yes, literary fiction is a complicated area. Some lit mags I respect, some I don't. Even the stories themselves are sometimes great and sometimes terrible (or at least terrible to me). I'm glad I focus more on genre fiction, and mystery/crime in particular. At least it's something I understand.<br /><br />Thanks as always--whether you show up anonymous or not.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-79579208135476510072023-05-20T10:07:48.009-04:002023-05-20T10:07:48.009-04:00Same thing with me, only my first acceptance from ...Same thing with me, only my first acceptance from AHMM was 1997!Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.com