tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post5017685154926874193..comments2024-03-28T15:01:21.285-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: Between Aha! and the P.O.Leigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-59080604488961414202014-09-21T22:10:36.121-04:002014-09-21T22:10:36.121-04:00I forgot to ask specifically about this, but it so...I forgot to ask specifically about this, but it sounds as if most of us choose to do an outline (either in our heads or on paper) before starting the first draft of either a short story or a novel. When I ask about that In the classes I teach, though, it seems it's always about half outliners and half who don't outline. Guess there will always be the two different ways, there.<br /><br />John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-67475319321583008242014-09-21T20:18:12.848-04:002014-09-21T20:18:12.848-04:00I outline head/paper. Then it's a first draft ...I outline head/paper. Then it's a first draft on my phone (Google Docs and BlueTooth keyboard). Then import the draft into Word and rewrite, rewrite, rewrite. Stephen Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05594368159220033291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-59378030413414785352014-09-21T18:17:04.755-04:002014-09-21T18:17:04.755-04:00Word Star!! I remember it well, R.T.
I'm gla...Word Star!! I remember it well, R.T.<br /><br />I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who never learned to type properly. I use more than two fingers, but I have a hard time not looking at those fingers while they type. I've been told I use the eagle method: hover and dive.<br /><br />My wife is my First Reader also (and often my Only Reader). Just the other day she looked over one of my "finished" stories and found several absolutely stupid plot holes. Thank God "real" readers (make that "editors") don't get to see these things until they've been cleaned up a bit.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-76073560400078565082014-09-21T17:47:54.805-04:002014-09-21T17:47:54.805-04:00John, I started out writing with a ball point pen ...John, I started out writing with a ball point pen on a yellow legal pad because that was what was always handy. Rather than drawing long lines to move sentences or paragraphs, I cut and taped. No two pages were the same length. That was followed by writing on an AT&T 6300 which required two floppy disks, one for Word Star and the other for writing.<br />Nowadays with short stories or a chapter, I almost always start at the beginning and re-write/edit until I get to the point where I left off last, then write new stuff. This helps me get back in the voice again while hopefully making the prose better.<br />In my old high school, boys didn't take typing, so I'm a two finger typist.<br />Paper which has been printed on one side only gets saved for the almost finished story which then gets printed for the First Reader, my wife, in order for her to give me her opinion.<br />Everybody finds what works for them.R.T. Lawtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523486296396710227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-28053542086338392742014-09-21T15:21:35.279-04:002014-09-21T15:21:35.279-04:00Well said, Michael. And I have nothing but admira...Well said, Michael. And I have nothing but admiration for (and envy of) those who can write a publishable first draft. I am destined to forever create washboard-rough first drafts and many subsequent drafts. As you said, to each his own.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-16554593717095809032014-09-21T10:56:41.102-04:002014-09-21T10:56:41.102-04:00Leigh and John, how many drafts a story goes throu...Leigh and John, how many drafts a story goes through is no indication of quality or publishability. I have sold stories written on a typewriter where the first draft was the only draft and seen them published with little or no editorial changes/corrections.<br /><br />On the flip side, I've edited anthologies and judged writing competitions and have seen stories that have been through multiple drafts that are not and may never be publishable.<br /><br />Every writer works differently. Some write quickly and some write slowly. Some write clean first drafts that require little editing and some write messy first drafts that require multiple editing passes. Some use pencil and paper, some typewriters, some computers, and some even dictate or use voice recognition software.<br /><br />Ultimately, it doesn't matter how we get from concept to publishable draft. That some of have the ability to get there at all sets us apart from the wanna-be but never-will-be writers out there.Michael Brackenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01072019804281421944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-20645853547170577682014-09-20T23:49:06.500-04:002014-09-20T23:49:06.500-04:00Rob, I do enjoy the process of planning the story ...Rob, I do enjoy the process of planning the story out beforehand, and I'm always a little surprised to hear how many writers don't do that detailed mapping-out of the story before they start writing. I think if I tried that, I would never be able to produce a marketable, or even meaningful, story. Different strokes, right? John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-12025920294113487022014-09-20T22:55:48.468-04:002014-09-20T22:55:48.468-04:00My favorite is step 2. HItchcock said he would ge...My favorite is step 2. HItchcock said he would get the movie perfect on storyboards and then actors would come in and ruin it. I feel the same way: the story is perfect before I start actually writing. The damned words ruin it.<br /><br />I usually tyoe the first dradft on the computer, then print and revise on paper. Retype, print, revise, rinse and keep repeating, for months.Robert Loprestihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08844889305615182897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-9622078184190285272014-09-20T20:53:57.365-04:002014-09-20T20:53:57.365-04:00Leigh, you bring up a good point: some writers do ...Leigh, you bring up a good point: some writers do consider the act of transcribing their handwritten drafts into the computer as their first chance to edit/revise/rewrite. So the transcription in itself becomes your second draft, and somehow seems like less of a waste of time.<br /><br />And I think you're right, about those first-draft-is-the-final-draft stories. I can't help believing that the publication's editor is indeed the one who has to do the rewriting. If he/she accepts the story at all.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-5344931445749227712014-09-20T20:47:33.702-04:002014-09-20T20:47:33.702-04:00Bradley, I have most definitely not created any st...Bradley, I have most definitely not created any stories using my iPad. I have enough trouble with a fullsized keyboard and screen. And yes, I do remember my old Underwood typewriter and carbon paper, although that's like recalling a bad dream. Thank God computers and word processing programs made it onto the scene before I tried submitting anything to publications.<br /><br />I too have made impromptu notes on whatever might be handy, when ideas strike me--the problem there is that sometimes I can't locate my notes later. As for your final comment, Heaven help me if I had to correct/critique anything written by my students in cursive.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-9590470593876377352014-09-20T20:41:20.415-04:002014-09-20T20:41:20.415-04:00I suspect those who write one draft only– the fina...I suspect those who write one draft only– the final– are like Microsoft when they let their users catch their errors. I bet it’s the poor editors who are burdened with making it all look good.<br /><br />I used to scratch out my stories on a legal pad and then type them into the computer. I don’t recall exactly the day I stopped doing that, but there was one big advantage in that it provided a chance to rethink, reedit, and revise as the data was entering the machine.Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-54808374160177856942014-09-20T16:47:19.584-04:002014-09-20T16:47:19.584-04:00I will dip my toes into this pool of writers and a...I will dip my toes into this pool of writers and ask if anyone creates on a tablet? I've also read of a couple people (Gen-whatever they are called nowadays) who create mini-novelettes on their cellphone.<br /><br />Typewriters and carbon paper were my beginnings. Put all the material in stacks (and in the order I would use them) around my desk, take 10 or so minutes to think up a hook for the first paragraph then start typing away; only pausing to pick up material to reference as I plugged along. <br /><br />I venture back and forth nowadays between keyboard and legal pad - whatever suits my fancy and many times depending on where I am at the time. I've also been known to pull out those magazine subscription cards from magazines in a doctors office if an idea came to me and use them as my mini-notepad. <br /><br />When it comes to correcting student papers, my preference is typewritten as middle school penmanship (at least a decade or so ago) was a mystery in itself to decipher!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-31544704294613104092014-09-20T14:19:41.406-04:002014-09-20T14:19:41.406-04:00Michael, it's always interesting to me to hear...Michael, it's always interesting to me to hear a writer describe his work process, and even more so when that someone's as prolific as you are. I too have found that I'm more likely to print out a draft for revision if I'm writing something different (a story that's either very long or in another genre). John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-13761065712600639022014-09-20T11:48:33.304-04:002014-09-20T11:48:33.304-04:00I began writing before computers and pretty much w...I began writing before computers and pretty much wrote all of my drafts on a typewriter. I'm not a particularly fast typist, hate to retype anything I've already drafted, and so learned to write clean drafts of my stories on the first pass through the typewriter. I even sold many of them.<br /><br />I still work in a similar manner, drafting everything at the keyboard (and, now, even drafting some things on my cell phone), only now I futz around a bit more, writing scenes out of order and the like because i can easily manipulate things on screen. For many years my first printout was my final draft, and off it went to an editor.<br /><br />That's changed the past few years. I now often print a hardcopy and give my paper ms. a final proofreading. I'm finding errors that I hadn't found while reading on screen. I don't know if it's because I've gotten sloppier in my on-screen drafts or I've become pickier in what I consider acceptable.<br /><br />And, while the above describes my usual method of writing, there are exceptions. Occasionally I write a story in an unfamiliar genre or I attempt something outside my comfort zone. Those stories sometimes get several paper drafts that I work over with a pen before making corrections and changes onscreen. Thus, the usual way I work isn't the only way I work.Michael Brackenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01072019804281421944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-71356049961018795012014-09-20T09:25:55.626-04:002014-09-20T09:25:55.626-04:00Melodie, I'm with you--I started writing befor...Melodie, I'm with you--I started writing before word processors also (I only started <i>submitting</i> about the time computers came onto the scene). So I share your pain, regarding typewriters (correctable or not). I'm not sure I could do that anymore.<br /><br />And yes, I also think correcting/critiquing students' work is far easier using paper than trying to do it onscreen.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-91535023921162056932014-09-20T09:15:29.306-04:002014-09-20T09:15:29.306-04:00Okay, well I won my first short story award in 198...Okay, well I won my first short story award in 1989, so I was writing BEFORE there were word processors! Stone age. We considered the correctable typewriter a pretty big invention.<br /><br />But yes - I immediately switched to computers in the 90s, and I write direct to keyboard.<br /><br />And Fran, I teach writing at college, and I feel the same about correcting on paper. I spend so much time on computer for my own writing, that the last thing I want is to read on computer.Melodie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870938103759179132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-76418203333965045442014-09-20T08:51:16.762-04:002014-09-20T08:51:16.762-04:00Ditto, Fran. These days a ream of paper lasts me ...Ditto, Fran. These days a ream of paper lasts me a long time. Years ago, I went through one pretty fast.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-57680107253642570612014-09-20T08:05:03.372-04:002014-09-20T08:05:03.372-04:00John, my progression from by-hand rough draft to e...John, my progression from by-hand rough draft to everything done on the computer has essentially been just like yours. I do, however, prefer to work from a printed copy of anyone else's writing that I review or edit. It's easier and feels less like work. Plus, if it's novel length, I can read it while waiting at doctors' offices. Fran Rizerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08655783035179620991noreply@blogger.com