tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post380313215189603916..comments2024-03-29T08:48:03.820-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: Dis ContentLeigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-48863840403238713062018-07-23T14:54:21.678-04:002018-07-23T14:54:21.678-04:00I'm late in making a comment, but I have to sa...I'm late in making a comment, but I have to say that for the most part I agree with Barb. Native American children have enough low self esteem as it is without reading stuff like that in a book. No one is keeping anyone from reading the book. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-59267874995448665692018-07-23T08:55:29.924-04:002018-07-23T08:55:29.924-04:00Wilder did indeed record her family's (especia...Wilder did indeed record her family's (especially her mother's) hostile comments about Native Americans. On the other hand, I remember that the doctor who saved their lives and treated them for free was Dr. Tann, a black man, and not a disparaging word was said about him or his race. <br /><br />BTW, he was real: Dr. George A. Tann (see this article here: http://littlehouseontheprairie.com/dr-george-a-tann-pioneer-physician-and-neighbor-to-the-ingalls/) Turns out he also delivered Laura's little sister Carrie. <br /><br />Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-19317516420234541472018-07-22T22:19:12.671-04:002018-07-22T22:19:12.671-04:00Steve, ask any Native American who has read Wilder...Steve, ask any Native American who has read Wilder's books, and I bet you they had a negative connotation with those books long before the ALA said anything. Wait until you read a book that says you and your people are less than human and then tell me you shouldn't have a problem with it and you should care if those books have a negative connotation. A committee of childen's librarians researched and discussed this issue for over a year and then voted unanimously to put the needs of marginalized children first. I think that's great. And you don't want to stifle free speech? Then don't tell the ALA that they can't decide they don't want to put their imprimatur any longer on books that make Native American children feel bad. That is their speech. <br /><br />And you're not going to persuade me about political correctness either. (You either, Leigh.) You can choose to treat other people with kindness and still talk about difficult issues. Just like we're doing here. There's no name-calling. There's respectful discussion. Barb Goffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013123434790272424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-33997063475032063722018-07-22T20:46:33.126-04:002018-07-22T20:46:33.126-04:00Barb,
Political correctness is NOT about treating ...Barb,<br />Political correctness is NOT about treating people with respect. It's about PREVENTING PEOPLE FROM TALKING ABOUT THINGS that make people who disagree with them "uncomfortable." That means it's censorship. It stifles free expression and open discussion. <br /><br />Taking someone's name off an award is a way of "disappearing them," just as Orwell showed in 1984. From this moment on, Wilder's name will have negative connotations. That will affect how she is read...if indeed she continues to be read. This isn't like getting a one-star review on Amazon. Steve Liskowhttp://www.steveliskow.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-85835122162305621752018-07-22T20:40:32.687-04:002018-07-22T20:40:32.687-04:00Thanks, Barb. One couldn't hope for a more elo...Thanks, Barb. One couldn't hope for a more eloquent defense. To be sure, the topic did shift from renunciation to censorship. This falls at a time when actors aren't merely being shunned by Hollywood, but their names removed from rolls… and rôles. Stuff happens. As the trend increases, I fear those Soviet-style erasures, the striking of those who find themselves on the wrong side of the political establishment. But yes, you make an important point.<br /><br />Except, I disagree political correctness can enforce respect. Respect, kindness– those traits we should learn at home. In the guise of social politeness, political correctness has become weaponized as a means of controlling others based upon another's whims. Dictating to the unwashed (⬅︎ politically incorrect) is about as likely to result in respect as the insults flying about Washington these days. That said, if there's an elegant defense, Barb, I depend upon you to persuasively articulate it.<br /><br />Rob, we've seen beloved books come and go. Novels and novelists become forgotten and fall by the wayside. Horatio Alger, for example, once a household name, has slid from public memory. If there was a reward in his name, it would be sad but somewhat understandable if that honor was dropped in this new age. That didn't happen to Wilder. The ALA actively and assertively declared Wilder sort of persona non grata, that in their politically sensitive 'woke' judgment, she was no longer worthy of their award. That's what dismays me. That's why I believe they got it wrong.<br /><br />RT, good point. Our readers are educated, but I wonder how many others would be horrified reading a 19th century story to learn faggots were thrown in the fireplace. At least Oscar Wilde was merely tossed in gaol.<br /><br />Jeff, amen, my friend. There is a telltale whiff, isn't there?Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-72401014083863015352018-07-22T20:07:17.036-04:002018-07-22T20:07:17.036-04:00Something about some of the news outlets that were...Something about some of the news outlets that were spreading this story and tut-tutting about Wilder's books makes me suspicious as all hell. I stand with Laura Ingalls Wilder and her books!Jeff Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00316081079528920123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-83909523989496908702018-07-22T14:48:26.976-04:002018-07-22T14:48:26.976-04:00Our society has gone mad to the point where if you...Our society has gone mad to the point where if you even use what's considered to be a racist word to talk about a situation which you may be against, then you too can be called a racist. And, if this censorship type of thinking &/or I'm-more-PC-than-you thinking continues then who knows how our own current writings will be judged for political correctness by others in the future if attitudes and opinions happen to change the definition of a word? After all, the English language keeps evolving. A century ago, if you wrote that someone was gay, it meant a completely different thing, having nothing to do with sexual preference in those days. So, who can safely predict how words they've written in the past will be defined in the future?R.T. Lawtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523486296396710227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-78432119100793028962018-07-22T14:45:56.958-04:002018-07-22T14:45:56.958-04:00I'm against censorship. Explain to me how wha...I'm against censorship. Explain to me how what the ALA did was censorship. Did they suggest Wilder's boosk shouldn't be read, sold, or offered in libraries? No, they decided that her name shouldn't be on their own award, which by the way, puts WIlder at the same level as thousands of other children's authors.<br /><br />I never read the Wilder books until my daughter was old enough to have them read to her. A few chapters into the first book my wife and I said, "Okay, now we are going to explain what the New Deal was, and what 'propaganda' means." Then we read more of the books, but we always explained what Wilder was arguing for and against.<br /><br />For the record, we didn't name any awards after her.Robert Loprestihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08844889305615182897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-23332429537853181332018-07-22T14:40:25.565-04:002018-07-22T14:40:25.565-04:00Wow. I disagree with all of you here. This has bee...Wow. I disagree with all of you here. This has been said before more eloquently by others, but here goes: There is no censorship going on here. No one is saying don't read her books. No one is saying don't publish her books. No one is saying don't teach her books. No one is pulling them from libraries or bookstores or classrooms. No one is saying change the words in her books. <br /><br />What has happened? An organization that strives to encourage children to read has said it does not want to have ITS award named in HER honor anymore because it believes those books could make some children feel badly about themselves when they read them. That is their right, and I think they have made a good and honorable decision. When you read Huck Finn, yes, there are outrageous words in there, but it's clear from the book that Jim is a good guy. That same impression doesn't come across from the Little House books, no matter how warmly a lot of fellow white folks remember the books. But it doesn't matter what I think or you think. It's the ALA's award and they can honor anyone they want to. I would hate to think that if SleuthSayers decided to name an award in someone's honor today and in 50 years the people then in SleuthSayers decided that that person or his stories wasn't so great after all, and they'd like to rename the award, that they would be stuck with continuing to honor the same person simply because any change would be deemed censorship. That's ridiculous. When it's your award, you get to call it what you want. <br /><br />And by the way, political correctness is another way of saying treating other people with respect. We certainly could use more of that in this world.Barb Goffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013123434790272424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-86783113334979938682018-07-22T10:59:19.440-04:002018-07-22T10:59:19.440-04:00Steve, when I think of all the books I read growin...Steve, when I think of all the books I read growing up, the best warped young minds into… making them think. Censorship and renouncing authors are like miniature executions… they kill creativity. I always felt librarians had our best interests in mind– maybe the ALA still believes that, but few others do.<br /><br />Bollocks… Eve, good answer to a badly warping of history. Your comment reminded me of one of the Rumpole stories where the romance author mutilated and merged historical timelines, making poor Rumpole shudder. Despite criticisms about accents, Shakespeare in Love was pretty entertaining until the end. The director just couldn't resist putting an anachronistic politically correct comment in the mouth of the queen. As you say… grow up!<br /><br />Thanks, John! So far it's Common Sense 4, Censorship 0!<br />Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-29687805091708444552018-07-22T10:09:13.421-04:002018-07-22T10:09:13.421-04:00I hate censorship, and this constant rewriting of ...I hate censorship, and this constant rewriting of history is ridiculous. As Eve said, grow up!!<br /><br />Excellent column, Leigh. My wife has read all the L. I. Wilder books, and we still have them.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-73106565653434427422018-07-22T09:01:34.332-04:002018-07-22T09:01:34.332-04:00I'm totally opposed to what they've done w...I'm totally opposed to what they've done with Wilder's works, not just because it's censorship, but because it's a rewriting of history. Wilder's works reflect the times; just as Twain's did. People may not like it, they may want everyone to be whatever the current morality, etc., is (thus in Victorian times they cut the living hell out of Shakespeare, for instance, and some plays were NEVER performed), but it's all bollocks. It's like the modern thing where too damn many "historical" novels have to have completely ahistorical characters, especially young girls who are ninja warriors in the 18th century, because empowerment or something. Ridiculous. GROW UP, PEOPLE!Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-501281033589002102018-07-22T08:59:12.270-04:002018-07-22T08:59:12.270-04:00My teacher read several of the Laura Ingalls Wilde...My teacher read several of the Laura Ingalls Wilder books to us in grade school. My sister had the entire set growing up. I'm sure thousands of other kids in our generation can say the same and however we turned out, it wasn't because Wilder warped us.<br /><br />Censorship is wrong unless the work (speech, book, play, whatever) is clearly going to incite violence, and even that is a slippery slope. <br /><br />The worst aspect of censorship is that when you silence a point of view, it's no longer possible to examine it and see where it might be wrong. Then, when it appears again years later, we've lost the defense. It's like people no longer vaccinating their children and now finding them vulnerable to various diseases again.<br /><br /><br />The ALA has made an irresponsible and wrong choice here. <br /><br />Steve Liskowhttp://www.steveliskow.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-67224867598570226592018-07-22T08:23:23.204-04:002018-07-22T08:23:23.204-04:00A 5th grade teacher literally kicked my butt and t...A 5th grade teacher literally kicked my butt and tore in half my aunt's copy of whatever Lovecraft collection I happened to be reading. I can't recall racism beyond the scaly, lizardy, greenish Cthulu overlords, and that was scary!<br /><br />O'Neil, we've worked to keep censorship at bay here in SleuthSayers. I much prefer adult conversations. I've always felt Twain understood much better than book-burners would believe, and no doubt other authors did as well. Look how Harper Lee rewrought her writing until she came out with a beautiful novel.Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-82114296069443370412018-07-22T07:34:15.143-04:002018-07-22T07:34:15.143-04:00Censorship sucks. Will they ban THE ILIAD for exce...Censorship sucks. Will they ban THE ILIAD for excessive violence? The ALA is wrong about Laura Ingalls Wilder. Just as those are wrong about H. P. Lovecraft whose racism should be noted but his books should never be banned. He was a weird fella who wrote weird stuff. Like Twain, Wilder wrote of her time and Lovecraft wrote of another world.O'Neil De Nouxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03142721824657611738noreply@blogger.com