tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post2732156119886058745..comments2024-03-28T15:01:21.285-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: Pay to Play -- Yea or Nay?Leigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-16402421700719207162020-11-07T17:01:07.160-05:002020-11-07T17:01:07.160-05:00Elizabeth, you're to be congratulated on your ...Elizabeth, you're to be congratulated on your contest wins, and I bet you're proud of the fact that those didn't cost anything to enter! My biggest problem with contests of any kind is that I can't shake the feeling that they'd be tying up stories that I might otherwise be sending to magazines or anthologies. Which would be true.<br /><br />I'm afraid I didn't realize that there are flash markets out there that charge reading fees (!). I guess no place is safe from them. Like you, I won't pay 'em either.<br /><br />Thanks for stopping in at SleuthSayers!John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-53285597000137467172020-11-07T16:25:46.464-05:002020-11-07T16:25:46.464-05:00Once, in the last century, I paid to enter a story...Once, in the last century, I paid to enter a story in a contest. I seem to be the only person here who has done that & admits to it! At the time, I had not sold any stories & I managed to convince myself that the story I was entering in the contest was obviously going to win & so it was an investment in my future success. Duh ... I don't even remember the name of the contest any more & I'm not sure they ever announced a winner. Possibly they just kept the money.<br /><br />I did win two other writing contests, which were free to enter, later on. The first paid only in bragging rights. The second paid $20 plus a very funny, entertaining book written by the contest judge.<br /><br />My favorite thing to write is flash fiction & recently I've been shocked to see how many flash "markets" are charging reading fees nowadays! I won't pay 'em.Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00239163766419735693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-8166878661942033732020-11-07T14:36:00.560-05:002020-11-07T14:36:00.560-05:00Hey Bob -- You're right, the do-I-submit-only-...Hey Bob -- You're right, the do-I-submit-only-to-paying-markets? question IS a related issue, and the answer to that probably does determine whether one's writing is a hobby or something more serious. I admit I do still occasionally submit to non-paying markets, but not often, and usually not unless it's a for-charity market or one whose editor I know and respect. <br /><br />The thing that's REALLY hard to understand is that some writers continue to submit to non-paying markets that also charge a reading fee (???).<br /><br />Thanks as always for your thoughts. Take care!John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-60733841159098005792020-11-07T14:24:27.126-05:002020-11-07T14:24:27.126-05:00I have never paid a reading fee, and never will. A...I have never paid a reading fee, and never will. As to editors feeling that fees cut down on the number of submissions, I think a sharp first reader can decide aftr a page or two if a story is worth reading. That puts pressure on the rest of us to write compelling stories.<br /><br />On a related topic, though I am not, and never was, a full time professional writer, and I have only had limited success, my writing is more than a hobby. I am leery of submitting to non-paying markets and have recently, pretty much. closed those markets off.<br /><br />Bobrjpetyohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01456461141590991475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-53778264050964307212020-11-07T13:31:51.606-05:002020-11-07T13:31:51.606-05:00Thank you, Steve--that's kind of you. I was f...Thank you, Steve--that's kind of you. I was fortunate and grateful that my story was chosen.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-74392322797286484732020-11-07T13:23:20.878-05:002020-11-07T13:23:20.878-05:00I forgot to mention earlier, but congratulations t...I forgot to mention earlier, but congratulations to John for having "Rhonda and Clyde" selected for Best American Mystery Stories 2020 and to Michael Bracken for having "The Town Where Money Grew on Trees" selected as a Distinguished story for the year. Steve Liskowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07107703903536520140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-31517985327673007102020-11-07T12:01:14.228-05:002020-11-07T12:01:14.228-05:00Me either, Sharon. It just seems wrong.Me either, Sharon. It just seems wrong.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-62769944607435350922020-11-07T11:42:12.763-05:002020-11-07T11:42:12.763-05:00I understand their reasons for charging fees, but ...I understand their reasons for charging fees, but I won't submit to a publication that charges a fee.Sharon Marchisellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08828948226093221255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-24397599601815976412020-11-07T11:23:11.087-05:002020-11-07T11:23:11.087-05:00O'Neil -- I forgot to address your comment abo...O'Neil -- I forgot to address your comment about the problems you're have ENTERING comments. I'm seeing the same kind of thing, where it takes me several tries. All I can say is, must be the new version of Blogger.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-75524670090990345232020-11-07T10:57:23.150-05:002020-11-07T10:57:23.150-05:00Michael -- Great story, on this subject! I'm ...Michael -- Great story, on this subject! I'm a little surprised by that 25-cent fee they charged--I wonder how many folks took them up on it. Seems more trouble that it would be worth. I also wonder how many writers are paying the (mostly three-dollar) fees currently being charged by so many of the lit magazines. I suspect a lot of them are. <br /><br />As an editor yourself, of not just anthologies but magazines as well, I appreciate your input and insights on this. I really hope the practice of charging submission fees will one day go away. But I doubt it.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-37411972012414232182020-11-07T10:47:14.182-05:002020-11-07T10:47:14.182-05:00Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away—in other words...Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away—in other words, in the early 1970s, when I was a teenager just beginning my writing career—<i>Amazing</i> and <i>Fantastic</i>, two science fiction magazines then edited by Ted White, implemented a 25-cent reading fee for unsolicited submissions from writers with no previous sales, payable in cash or the equivalent in postage stamps. The money was to pay slush pile readers, including Grant Carrington and Rick Snead.<br /><br />I dutifully submitted a story accompanied by 25-cents worth of postage stamps for payment of the reading fee. My story was rejected because, claimed the rejection, I had not included my reading fee. Well, I most certainly had, and I sent off a letter of complaint!<br /><br />I don't recall a response to my letter, nor do I recall submitting anything else during the remainder of Ted White's tenure as editor. <i>Amazing</i> has died and been resurrected many times since then, with a variety of editors and publishers, and, I suspect has never since charged a reading fee.<br /><br />In a twist of fate, Grant Carrington, one of <i>Amazing</i>'s slush pile readers and an oft-published SF writer, later wrote a column for my fanzine, <i>Knights of the Paper Space Ship</i>. I did not charge him a reading fee.Michael Brackenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01072019804281421944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-18394681390537382162020-11-07T10:27:47.342-05:002020-11-07T10:27:47.342-05:00O'Neil -- Your doctor doesn't pay you?!?? ...O'Neil -- Your doctor doesn't pay you?!?? <br /><br />I agree with you completely--I guess if a writer's just starting out, and/or doesn't mind paying to submit, and/or isn't that serious about all this, he or she might go ahead and pay these fees. It's easy enough to do, with the automated way the payments are handled, etc., and the fee's rarely high--but again, it just shouldn't be done. It really IS the principle of the thing. But I have no doubt the practice will continue.<br /><br />Eve, I'm beginning to be encouraged, here--it seems that most, if not all, my writer friends, agree about this. It's a bad practice, and I'm sure it keeps a lot of quality writers away from those publications. <br /><br />Thanks, y'all, for chiming in, here. Keep writing stories, and sending them to the "good" places.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-12903962844932444662020-11-07T10:20:17.772-05:002020-11-07T10:20:17.772-05:00Josh, as usual, we're in agreement. I still n...Josh, as usual, we're in agreement. I still need to be better about subscribing to certain magazines--I send stories regularly to a lot of different places--but I think that's the best way to support these markets.<br /><br />Steve, with regard to agents, they should not only not charge reading fees, they should not charge for copying, postage, or any other administrative costs--their money should come only from the money you receive as a result of their efforts. And that's a good point about anthologies--they never charge fees, and neither do any of the genre magazines I know of. As for contests, I'm with you. I don't enter my stories in contests. One reason is, I think the odds of getting a story published in a respectable magazine or antho are far better than the odds of winning first place in a contest. <br /><br />Ditto, Susan, on the contests. And thank you for those thoughts, on "other" things publishers of journals can do, besides charging fees. I'd never thought of some of those. I do spend a lot of time trying to research markets for short stories, and I'm AMAZED at how many litmags charge those submission fees. (Narrows down the places I need to submit stories to, though.)John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-30605558615627703102020-11-07T09:57:27.362-05:002020-11-07T09:57:27.362-05:00I don't pay to submit a story to either a cont...I don't pay to submit a story to either a contest or a magazine. I do subscribe to a few, an I agree, that is totally different, and my choice. Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-25970582710064992852020-11-07T09:38:53.165-05:002020-11-07T09:38:53.165-05:00This is my third and final attempt to comment on t...This is my third and final attempt to comment on this post. This blog site is annoying.<br />Never paid to submit a story. If the writer is an amateur and wants to pay – it's their money. A professional writer is a professional. I don't expect my lawyer to pay me to give her legal advice. My doctor does not pay me.O'Neil De Nouxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03142721824657611738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-19936975766225151912020-11-07T09:28:51.798-05:002020-11-07T09:28:51.798-05:00I have never paid a reader's fee and never wil...I have never paid a reader's fee and never will, nor do I submit to contests. For five years a friend and I had a literary journal (The Larcom Review), which accepted poetry, nonfiction, fiction, book reviews, and interviews along with black and white art. We never charged and managed to pay a nominal $25 for each acceptance. No, we didn't make much money (practically none), but we were proud of our work.<br /><br />There are ways around charging fees but the editors/publishers choose not to use them. First, since most of these journals are at colleges and universities, the publishers/editors can require students in creative writing classes to be readers during the term. The process and work will be educational. Second, seek out financial sponsors in the community (the local photocopier, etc.). Third, require at least one publication in a reputable journal or magazine before a story, etc., can be considered. (This sounds unfair but it really isn't; there are tons of outlets these days.) Fourth, admit that no one reads the entire story, and definitely not past the first page if it isn't worthwhile, so teach the readers/editors greater efficiency. As one who knows what comes over the transom, I understand the desire to eliminate the dregs of the writing world, but requiring fees is easy and tempting and not necessary. Too many good writers are turned away, to the journal's loss.Susan Oleksiwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02693057997469296068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-88951477133641446452020-11-07T09:25:48.103-05:002020-11-07T09:25:48.103-05:00Good post, John, as always.
I don't think I&#...Good post, John, as always.<br /><br />I don't think I've ever paid a reader's fee. I know I avoided agents who charged one when I was first starting out. Many sources told me it was not an approved practice, period.<br /><br />When I first started writing, I paid entrance fees to a couple of contests. Eventually, I figured out a few things. First, my favorite stories color outside the lines enough so judges won't go near them. Second, some of the fees were ridiculously high. I decided if a fee was more than one percent of the prize offer, it wasn't a fair exchange. Twenty dollars for a five-hundred-dollar prize is insulting and absurd. And common.<br /><br />I don't enter "contests" anymore. I look more an more at anthologies (all my published stories this year will be in anthologies, unless one story comes out more quickly than I expect) because their guidelines are more flexible and interesting. AND they don't charge those fees. Steve Liskowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07107703903536520140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-63405484484378964742020-11-07T09:10:59.144-05:002020-11-07T09:10:59.144-05:00I have never paid a reader fee and will not submit...I have never paid a reader fee and will not submit to any publication that charges one. The reasoning given for justifying them is, in my opinion, disingenuous.I do subscribe to most of the magazines that publish me, and to some that haven’t. Them’s my two cents — and I’m not going to charge you to read them. joshpachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12123432071405643210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-60244751667255134982020-11-07T09:10:32.128-05:002020-11-07T09:10:32.128-05:00Jacqueline -- I didn't mention contests here, ...Jacqueline -- I didn't mention contests here, though I've discussed them a lot in the past. I avoid most contests, period, but certainly those that charge fees. And you could be right about those who consider writing more of a hobby than a calling. Thanks a lot for the comment!John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-29982215426106864742020-11-07T08:59:41.244-05:002020-11-07T08:59:41.244-05:00I don't submit to publications that charge fee...I don't submit to publications that charge fees. I feel the same about writing contests. However, those who view writing as a hobby might feel differently. You present both sides of the issue fairly.Jacqueline Seewaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09177500620940251009noreply@blogger.com