tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post2443845743107236175..comments2024-03-29T10:24:43.685-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: Interview: 7 Crime Fiction Editors on the State of the Short Story MarketLeigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-6312000749217968142017-12-20T12:29:11.005-05:002017-12-20T12:29:11.005-05:00Hey Anonymous,
I interviewed seven editors, I don&...Hey Anonymous,<br />I interviewed seven editors, I don't think they were insulted. <br />If you don't think artists should get paid for their work, I don't know what to tell you, except that posted anonymously for a reason.Thomas Pluckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17008022962076648740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-75169499486844629032017-12-19T16:54:19.471-05:002017-12-19T16:54:19.471-05:00Great discussion- thanks, Tom for putting it toget...Great discussion- thanks, Tom for putting it together. I keenly follow the markets, and scrutinize them when I have a good story. EQ and AHMM take months to even respond, a downer. Down & Out looks like a great start- bought the first one as a test, will get more. Rick's doing a good job there (when he's healthy!) Have published in ThugLit and Mystery Weekly, and have 5 stories out at Over My Dead Body, and a number of anthologies, including the Level Best ones, which are eligible for MWA creds. I do a lot of publicity, and increase sales in any mag I'm in- one way to help big. <br />It's a tough game, but I love the good stories. Am picky about the ones from others, so I look for top quality. Let's have a Bouchercon panel to see what we all can do to make this better!Dale T. Phillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14792295949745520240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-86968820642752796342017-12-05T15:56:11.491-05:002017-12-05T15:56:11.491-05:00Hey Tom, There are still some markets out there th...Hey Tom, There are still some markets out there that pay decently. Last summer, I was contacted by Mario Aceveda who was putting together an anthology titled "Blood and Gasoline" for Hex Publishers and he informed me they'd pay $250.00 for a short story, so I whipped one up and sent it. Was accepted and comes out, I believe, in February. Don't know how Mario came up with my name but glad he did. I've since looked them up and they publish a lot of magazines and anthologies. And, pay decent fees. One other thing--Mario provided old-time editing, the quality of which has largely disappeared from many so-called "editors" we see nowadays... It was a true joy to work with someone like him. So, they're out there... Blue skies, LesLes Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-58765925865557662072017-12-02T12:17:07.617-05:002017-12-02T12:17:07.617-05:00Broken wrist. Knee surgery. Blech. I'm more th...Broken wrist. Knee surgery. Blech. I'm more than happy to wait. Hope the pain subsides soon.Barb Goffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013123434790272424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-32848957512176693362017-12-02T09:43:19.695-05:002017-12-02T09:43:19.695-05:00Down & Out`s second issue (finally) went to pr...Down & Out`s second issue (finally) went to press yesterday. There's has been a backup and it is entirely due to the fault of the editor, Rick Ollerman. The idiot not only broke his wrist in early summer and couldn`t use a keyboard until just a couple of weeks ago, he also had a fourth knee surgery that has succeeded more in generating more pain than pain relief. So D&O has a backlog problem to Get through, and hopefully most of the writers will bear with us.Rick Ollermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02068917523381664001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-60107573164529797842017-12-02T09:23:21.123-05:002017-12-02T09:23:21.123-05:00Money, money money. If you don't enjoy writing...Money, money money. If you don't enjoy writing for its own sake or to entertain others, then you'd be better off pumping gas in your spare time. Stop thinking of it as a profession and insulting pubs that don't pay enough. Most of them do it out of love and lose money every month, so those that pay anything at all should be commended. Whether a publication pays nothing or several hundred dollars, it is still just a token and won't pay your bills. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-24392073756579584112017-12-01T23:13:06.823-05:002017-12-01T23:13:06.823-05:00That's a whole another kettle of fish. I edite...That's a whole another kettle of fish. I edited two myself and now it seems like there are no paying mystery anthologies. I'm thrilled that the Bouchercon 2018 anthology is paying. It's a good move. <br />Charity is great but if anthologies aren't profitable.... That's a problem.Thomas Pluckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17008022962076648740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-30711214846290771902017-12-01T20:03:52.603-05:002017-12-01T20:03:52.603-05:00Mystery Weekly Magazine. You missed an obvious one...Mystery Weekly Magazine. You missed an obvious one, guys.Longshot Presshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17682611447998104311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-28036009814208043482017-12-01T18:32:58.964-05:002017-12-01T18:32:58.964-05:00Barb, I’ve got a submission at D&O The Mag too...Barb, I’ve got a submission at D&O The Mag too (with no news yet). I think Issue 2 is underway but not released. Editor Rick Ollerman’s site noted in Oct that he was working on Issue 2, so I imagine it won’t be much longer. I’m guessing many of the slots are by invitation with just a few avail each issue for the open call. If so, I suspect responses might take a while.<br /><br />I also want to add my thanks for today’s informative post. Seems like markets (and even sub calls) come and go quickly, making it tougher but ever more important for writers to keep current. I’ve made a couple of withdrawals this year from markets that just seemed to freeze in the headlights: No response to sub or query, no announcement on-site or in social media. (Maybe they cut off communication after getting new identities in a Witness Protection Program.)<br />Peter DiChellishttp://murderandfries.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-33568329003881593812017-12-01T16:39:34.007-05:002017-12-01T16:39:34.007-05:00Interesting piece, Thomas. Like Barb, I won't ...Interesting piece, Thomas. Like Barb, I won't reiterate what my pals have already said, but I wanted to point out one thing you didn't mention, which is the market, mostly for anthologies, that pays in charitable donations as opposed to paying writers directly. I'm doing a story for one now that, instead of paying the writers, will send all profits to Planned Parenthood. As a writer, I feel more fulfilled doing some good for causes I believe in than being paid a pittance that will barely cover two glasses of wine.Craig Faustus Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10977748649878766205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-792162974510371412017-12-01T16:33:02.061-05:002017-12-01T16:33:02.061-05:00Interesting conversation indeed. Rather than rehas...Interesting conversation indeed. Rather than rehashing what others have said, let me ask a question sparked by something in the column: It said that Down and Out Magazine has had two issues published. Is that right? I purchased the first issue, but I've seen nothing about the second issue coming out yet. In fact, I thought they hadn't chosen the stories for issue two yet. (At least someone (I wonder who?) is still waiting to hear. ...) Does anyone know what's up with this?<br /><br />Barb Goffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013123434790272424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-56647064800956336672017-12-01T12:10:40.755-05:002017-12-01T12:10:40.755-05:00The Dark City still exists. I recently withdrew a ...<i>The Dark City</i> still exists. I recently withdrew a submission to which they had not responded...and they responded to the withdrawal.<br /><br />Should we have markets of our own to be proud of, Thomas? Of course we should. And we do...sort of. There are far more publications at the lower-end of the pay scale ($0-$25) than I can remember off the top of my head, and some of them publish great stories that are recognized by award nominates and inclusion in best-of anthologies.<br /><br />But I suspect you're more interested (as am I!) in more top-end markets with wide distribution and reasonable pay. Many publications have attempted to move into that space--remember <i>Espionage Magazine, The Saint Magazine,</i> or <i>Mary Higgins Clark Mystery Magazine,</i> among many others? They had--or appeared to have--business plans and financial backing that many small press publications don't.<br /><br />Both <i>Black Cat Mystery Magazine</i> and <i>D&O: The Magazine</i> appear to have a plan and have the backing of established publishers behind them. They should provide them with an advantage in the marketplace...but that advantage didn't help the publications I mentioned in the previous paragraph.<br /><br />So, what is it about mystery publications that they often don't draw a sufficient, self-sustainable subscriber base? We can blame lower readership or too many alternate entertainment venues or any number of other reasons, but ultimately it may come down to the business model of these publications: Have the publishers identified a sufficient number of potential subscribers and identified a way to reach them <i>before</i> publishing their first issue? Unless they do that, they are doomed to repeat the cycle of short-lived publications.<br /><br />I'm managing editor of a gardening magazine, of all things, with a small, but easily identified target readership. By delivering what the readership wants, in a form it wants to receive it, and doing so consistently over time, we maintain our subscriber base. It isn't rocket science, but it isn't easy, either. And that's what a new mystery magazine needs to do.<br /><br />Thanks for provoking this conversation, Thomas!Michael Brackenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01072019804281421944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-37793341078923688302017-12-01T12:07:07.422-05:002017-12-01T12:07:07.422-05:00Excellent column, Thomas! It's always helpful...Excellent column, Thomas! It's always helpful to hear what the editors have to say about all this.<br /><br />One thing I've done, for years now, is submit my mystery/crime stories to (as Michael said) markets that aren't identified as mystery publications. I never dreamed I could sell a mystery story to the <i>Sat. Eve. Post</i>, but when I tried, they bought it. And many of the lit mags sometimes buy mysteries as well. One of Tom Franklin's shorts, "Poachers," which won an Edgar and was included in a <i>Best American Mystery Stories</i>, first appeared not in AH or EQ or the Strand but in <i>The Texas Review</i>.<br /><br />And, as Rob said, we and all readers/writers need to support the markets that are already out there.<br /><br />Thanks for these great interviews and insights.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-51326098586483676172017-12-01T12:03:03.793-05:002017-12-01T12:03:03.793-05:00You can subscribe to Down & Out Magazine here:...You can subscribe to Down & Out Magazine here:<br />https://downandoutbooks.com/bookstore/down-out-magazine-subscription/Thomas Pluckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17008022962076648740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-29966092086410260632017-12-01T11:28:34.323-05:002017-12-01T11:28:34.323-05:00Michael, I agree that writers should expand their ...Michael, I agree that writers should expand their horizons about where they submit to, but shouldn't we have markets of our own to be proud of that publish a more diverse set of stories? I thought Gamut might be that market, but they form-rejected every non-supernatural story I sent them. Stories that found homes elsewhere. Thanks for listing those other markets. Is The Dark City still around? I can't remember. They haven't responded since July.<br />Thomas Pluckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17008022962076648740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-64512534079929276712017-12-01T11:19:26.672-05:002017-12-01T11:19:26.672-05:00Thanks for doing this, THomas, and thanks to the e...Thanks for doing this, THomas, and thanks to the editors. A few months ago on the Short Mystery Fiction Society list someone said that there weren't enough markets and suggested that the SMFS should start a magazine. This led to a considerable amount of enthusiastic discussion.<br /><br />Then I said: "I assume everyone who wants a new magazine already subscribes to EQMM, AHMM, Strand and Mystery Weekly Magazines?" And that was the end of the discussion.<br /><br />We don't need more markets. We need more (paying) readers. Get them and markets will bloom. As someone said, more people write modern poetry than read it.<br /><br />Not that I have a solution. Robert Loprestihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08844889305615182897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-7874412250870300952017-12-01T09:16:22.460-05:002017-12-01T09:16:22.460-05:00One of the on-going dilemmas in discussions like t...One of the on-going dilemmas in discussions like these is limiting the comparison of markets to mystery-only publications vs. sf/f-only or horror-only publications. If we take off our blinders, we find many markets that do not self-identify as mystery publications will publish mysteries. (Check any edition of <i>The Best American Mystery Stories</i> for the names of some of them.) Many of my best-paid crime fiction sales have been to non-mystery markets, and some of our fellow SleuthSayers make a nice bit of change writing mysteries for <i>Woman's World.</i><br /><br />Additionally, what's sometimes missed is that dark crime fiction and non-supernatural horror are essentially the same genre, and stories get labeled as dark crime or as horror because of the publications in which they appear. Writers of dark crime fiction who don't submit their stories to horror markets miss potential sales.<br /><br />Two paying mystery magazines I didn't see mentioned (or were mentioned and I missed them): <i>Sherlock Holmes Mystery Magazine</i> (23 issues and counting) and <i>Mystery Tribune</i> (just released its third issue). There are also other web-only publications that pay a small amount (<i>Tough</i> and <i>Flash Bang Mysteries</i> come immediately to mind).<br /><br />None of the above addresses your takeaway questions, though. The fact that small press publications come and go, that some pay and some don't, that some are high-quality and some suck toilet water, and that some have actual business models and others are the literary equivalent of Andy and Judy putting on a show in the barn is <i>nothing new.</i> I came into publishing through sf/f fandom, published a fanzine, contributed to fanzines/semi-prozines/small press publications on the sf/f side before turning pro, and still contribute to semi-prozines/small press publications on the crime fiction side. And none of this stops me from contributing to top-paying publications in multiple genres.<br /><br />As for editors/publishers thinking of starting a new small press publication: Know what you're doing going in and set realistic expectations. Having a goal of publishing the best stories of a particular crime fiction sub-genre may be intellectually/emotionally rewarding but it may not be financially rewarding.Michael Brackenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01072019804281421944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-25021067536679530342017-12-01T09:02:00.601-05:002017-12-01T09:02:00.601-05:00Thanks for organizing all of this, Thomas--though ...Thanks for organizing all of this, Thomas--though echoing Steve and Janice, too much of this doesn't sound very promising. <br /><br />I've always thought that one of the key problems is that writers submitting to these magazines don't actually subscribe to (or even read) the magazines themselves. Ambitions on the one side, lack of interest on the other. That's troubling. <br /><br />In any case, appreciate hearing from the editors here. Art Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02409008167752619352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-2544883550633032952017-12-01T08:53:52.686-05:002017-12-01T08:53:52.686-05:00Excellent overview, Thomas, but I agree with Janic...Excellent overview, Thomas, but I agree with Janice that it's pretty depressing.<br />Nobody talked about advertising in the magazines as a way of offsetting the costs, and I wonder how many do it. I know there are ads in Alfred Hitchcock and Ellery Queen, but how about the others? <br /><br />Another issue (for me) is the sometimes LOOOONNNNGGGG response time. I've had stories either rejected or accepted after eleven months, and I've had stories actually appear as long as 39 months (three years, three months) after acceptance. That particular magazine didn't issue me a contract for nearly three years, either. <br /><br />I'm amazed at the differences of opinion on some of the answers because some of them seem so obvious to me. Maybe that's why I'm not an editor/publisher. <br /><br />Thanks for posting this, though, because it gives me a few new venues to check out.Steve Liskowhttp://www.steveliskow.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-60752431379402980112017-12-01T08:19:21.759-05:002017-12-01T08:19:21.759-05:00A terrific, if depressing, roundup.
I'm afraid...A terrific, if depressing, roundup.<br />I'm afraid that the decently paid, short story is an endangered species unless younger readers can be enticed and enticed to pay for it. Alternately, short story writers have to find new outlets- perhaps in the construction of video games or some yet to be developed method of delivering narrative fiction. The magazine after all, is relatively new in human history, and nothing says it is guaranteed a long life.janice lawnoreply@blogger.com