tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post1978726610553219225..comments2024-03-18T19:00:03.047-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: Mystery MisstepsLeigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-48706088433505560282015-09-20T17:56:29.459-04:002015-09-20T17:56:29.459-04:00Leigh, I think I'm beginning to see why that W...Leigh, I think I'm beginning to see why that WD book was in the bargain bin. Seriously, I own dozens and dozens of books about writing, style, etc.--a few of them are excellent, most are so-so, and a few are absolutely pitiful. All I can say is, I'm not quite ready to ditch my colons, semicolons, and parentheses, and while I do like sentence fragments, I'd also like to keep some verbs around. I mean, really, dude.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-65071752929519611702015-09-20T16:40:09.783-04:002015-09-20T16:40:09.783-04:00Several days ago, I commented I picked up a Writer...Several days ago, I commented I picked up a Writers Digest book from Amazon’s bargain bin offering advice on writing. Following SleuthSayers guidelines, I won’t mention the author (and I see at least three other books of the same title), but after only two chapters, I was aghast.<br /><br />The author, apparently a professor, criticizes ‘old’ writing and promotes new, fresh, modern writing: Don’t hesitate to break old-fashioned rules.<br /><br />Fair enough, but while calling the reader ‘dude’ (really!), he goes on to recommend ditching obsolete punctuation like colons, semicolons, and parentheses. Even that’s tolerable under the right circumstances, but he doesn’t like verbs. Instead. He loves. Incomplete sentences. Sentence fragments, good. Complete sentences, bad. Obsolete. Old fashioned. So yesteryear.<br /><br />Clearly this expert is so tone deaf, he doesn’t realize the reader has to pause, re-parse the words, and try to figure out what the writer is trying to say. Ironically his attempts to be modern make his book sound dated.<br /><br />As you can tell, I still haven’t got that out of my system, John.Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-42024228015197044962015-09-19T13:48:56.306-04:002015-09-19T13:48:56.306-04:00Liz, I need to put both of you in my stories. I l...Liz, I need to put both of you in my stories. I love for my characters to interrupt each other.<br /><br />Head-hopping is, as you said, sometimes a no-no, but it's also acceptable when the author knows what he or she is doing. I think the first time I became aware of it being done well was in McMurtry's <i>Lonesome Dove</i>, many years ago. Gus and Call and their gang were always abruptly switching POVs back and forth, with no intervening chapters or scene breaks, and it caused no problems at all for the reader (or at least for this reader). But I've heard it called a "don't-try-this-at-home" thing; it can work, but only in capable hands.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-19056298129982877102015-09-19T13:20:16.357-04:002015-09-19T13:20:16.357-04:00Interrupting, that's the pet peeve of my life ...Interrupting, that's the pet peeve of my life nowadays because the husband & I are basically together 24/7 & neither of us is polite enough to wait our turn to speak. We are both working on it & I do try not to interrupt when I'm talking to anyone other than him.<br /><br />Head-hopping supposedly is a no-no, but Carson McCullers did it very well to the point where it was almost invisible. I think I've read everything she ever published.Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00239163766419735693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-59966276716297684722015-09-19T12:14:12.633-04:002015-09-19T12:14:12.633-04:00Bonnie, that sounds like a good system--sort of a ...Bonnie, that sounds like a good system--sort of a pre-flight checklist where you find and adjust the things that might cause you to crash. And your list of overused words match my own, especially "for a moment" and "actually."<br /><br />As for semicolons, I think I've mentioned before that one of the editors of <i>The New Yorker</i> once said that if he finds a correctly-used semicolon on the first page of a submitted manuscript, he will then read the entire story. Almost certainly a lie, but it does indicate that semicolons are often INcorrectly used.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-53615720866023323912015-09-19T11:46:34.773-04:002015-09-19T11:46:34.773-04:00Thank you for standing up for semicolons! So many ...Thank you for standing up for semicolons! So many people disparage them these days; some editors won't tolerate them at all. I don't see any advantage to making our language less flexible by eliminating a concise, long-established way of showing that two clauses are closely related. I've heard some writers argue that we should avoid semicolons because they intimidate people who don't know how to use them, but I can't see dumbing down the language because some people aren't willing to learn a few very simple rules. (Strunk and White provide a good defense of semicolons--in the third edition, it's under Rule 5 in Elementary Rules of Usage.)<br /><br />Like most writers, I have certain words and phrases that I use far too often--just, well, that, sort of, for a moment, actually, and a host of others. My low-tech approach to trying to solve this problem is to keep a list on an index card. During final editing, I take out the index card and go through the manuscript one more time, searching for those words and phrases and cutting them whenever possible.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-28384020905530548792015-09-19T11:36:11.600-04:002015-09-19T11:36:11.600-04:00Good point, Barb, on the (over)use of cliches. I ...Good point, Barb, on the (over)use of cliches. I agree that they can and should be used in both internal monologue and real dialogue--I just catch myself using too many in the narrative of the story. It probably all boils down to the fact that cliches are almost always dated and (too) familiar, and everyone likes originality in a piece of writing.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-58615250051049078142015-09-19T11:30:58.144-04:002015-09-19T11:30:58.144-04:00Fran, you are too kind. As for these current proj...Fran, you are too kind. As for these current projects, the screenplay was more of a lark than anything else--those are SO different, in terms of both format and process, but they're great fun. And even when I write regular stories, I find myself thinking of images on a screen anyhow, so I had a really good time coming up with the script. It's sort of a mystery/western.<br /><br />YES, I too often type two words together, especially and and or the the, etc. I probably just need to pay more attention to what I'm doing.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-79559719393220547742015-09-19T11:25:43.113-04:002015-09-19T11:25:43.113-04:00Like Eve, I find that with each story I write, I h...Like Eve, I find that with each story I write, I have a different pet phrase or unusual word that I use repeatedly. I think when I first write it, it sticks in my mind because I liked how it sounded, so then I inadvertently use it over and over. <br /><br />As to cliches, while I agree it's good to try to avoid them, people do talk in cliches. And they think in cliches. So I wouldn't limit their use to dialogue. Your exposition is being told from the point of view of your main character, so these are your main character's thoughts. Main characters can think in cliches too. At least occasionally. Barb Goffmanhttp://www.barbgoffman.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-18647268135158143842015-09-19T11:24:43.646-04:002015-09-19T11:24:43.646-04:00Thanks, Eve. As for those cute little phrases, it...Thanks, Eve. As for those cute little phrases, it's bad enough to reuse them in the same story (I do it a lot), but it's REALLY bad when you combine a bunch of stories into a collection of previously published tales and find those phrases scattered throughout. I use "search" to find and correct some of them, but I have so darn many little phrases that I like . . . <br /><br />Melodie, I've never heard it stated as a rule, but I too try to insert some kind of speaker tag in every fourth or fifth line of dialogue. I should also mention that when writing emails I happily violate almost every point I made in this column--especially regarding exclamation points!!!!John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-65729070696132145632015-09-19T10:40:58.521-04:002015-09-19T10:40:58.521-04:00John, I'd say, "Good luck on all those pr...John, I'd say, "Good luck on all those projects," but I don't think your success is based on luck. I believe it's a combination of talent and craft.<br /><br />Today's blog is a great check list and I will share it. Personally, my most common offenses are overuse of two words which I delete on editing--just and, like yours, my characters turn too often.<br /><br /> Fran Rizerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08655783035179620991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-71019338346459996512015-09-19T10:33:23.684-04:002015-09-19T10:33:23.684-04:00John, when I teach dialogue to my students, I use ...John, when I teach dialogue to my students, I use "The Rule of 4" - that is, I tell them that where there are only two speakers, every 4th piece of dialogue needs to have a speech tag or beat, to remind the reader who is speaking. I follow this diligently myself.<br />So many good point in this post! (says she, using an unnecessary exclamation point)Melodie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870938103759179132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-71358853416923789422015-09-19T09:53:14.761-04:002015-09-19T09:53:14.761-04:00I use dashes all the time. One thing I've cau...I use dashes all the time. One thing I've caught myself doing a few times - and I'm trying to stop that (not the dashes, note the continuing use of dashes) - is coming up with a sweet little phrase, using it, and then using it again in the same damn story! Way to show what a wide imagination I have, isn't it? <br /><br />Meanwhile, congratulations on your story, screenplay and collection. Woo-hoo! Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-72260466408699353392015-09-19T09:23:11.198-04:002015-09-19T09:23:11.198-04:00Thanks, Janice. I make plenty of those errors too...Thanks, Janice. I make plenty of those errors too. I confess that my favorite use of hyphens is to connect multiple-word adjectives like three-alarm fire, one-horse town, high-risk activity, etc. But at least we don't have to worry about dividing words in the wrong places, as we did in the typewriter days.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-1316741694505178102015-09-19T09:16:01.406-04:002015-09-19T09:16:01.406-04:00Best of luck with all your projects. That is a goo...Best of luck with all your projects. That is a good checklist of catchable errors.<br />Mine tend to be spelling and hyphens. I can't seem to convince myself that the latter are necessary.Janice lawnoreply@blogger.com