tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post1947936245614886823..comments2024-03-28T10:16:38.716-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: Paint It BlackLeigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-33428242476697798492017-02-26T15:16:49.373-05:002017-02-26T15:16:49.373-05:00That's too bad about the anthology, R.T.--best...That's too bad about the anthology, R.T.--best of luck with EQMM. I faced a similar dilemma when Ken Wishnia invited me to submit a story to Jewish Noir--I had only a vague idea of what noir is, and although I'd written some fairly dark stories, I didn't know if I could do a convincing job of writing about the kinds of characters and settings usually found in noir stories. So I tried writing a noir story with an academic setting, and it evidently worked well enough to satisfy Ken. I even worked in some humor (though you have to know a little Yiddish to get the best joke).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673578800047888317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-29581893836577663142017-02-26T14:56:29.423-05:002017-02-26T14:56:29.423-05:00Noir is about the Consequences of Sin. Sinners! Ve...Noir is about the Consequences of Sin. Sinners! Very Old Testament in flavor and texture. The Book of Job is Noir. So is Steinbeck. Especially Of Mice and Men. Big Trouble nowadays with noir? Every publisher claims This Book is Noir!! Good luck!!Fred Zackelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-9457550432485500902017-02-26T14:21:03.094-05:002017-02-26T14:21:03.094-05:00R.T., good luck with the story---please keep us po...R.T., good luck with the story---please keep us posted! I've never written a noir story, and after reading this I'm going to have to try! Rob, thanks for the Peter Lorre quote, it made my day!Jeff Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00316081079528920123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-46792868257666224402017-02-26T11:22:21.634-05:002017-02-26T11:22:21.634-05:00Fall from the curb… ha!
I had not realized the ma...Fall from the curb… ha!<br /><br />I had not realized the main character wasn’t supposed to be a detective… I think of Hammett and Chandler as essential noir. We live and learn.<br /><br />On the other hand, Cain’s novella The Butterfly has been called Appalachia noir, the subsequent relocated movie became Nevada noir.<br /><br />Sorry about the anthology, but good luck with EQMM.Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-81542893842040099272017-02-26T11:20:02.290-05:002017-02-26T11:20:02.290-05:00Thanks for the noir description. I've always f...Thanks for the noir description. I've always found it one of those things that's difficult to define and difficult to pronounce.<br /><br />Good luck with the short story!Barb Goffmanhttp://www.barbgoffman.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-59480655819785953012017-02-26T09:40:50.350-05:002017-02-26T09:40:50.350-05:00Noir is hard. I love John's definition, and I...Noir is hard. I love John's definition, and I too always think of James M. Cain at his most ruthless. (I like noir, but can only take so much of it. Then I want someone to have some virtue, somewhere...) Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-29060478681859942322017-02-26T09:32:43.848-05:002017-02-26T09:32:43.848-05:00Good luck with the story, RT. Like David Dean, I ...Good luck with the story, RT. Like David Dean, I seldom think much about the genre or sub-genre of the stories I write, and others wind up categorizing them later. I had one story published in an Akashic noir anthology, and I wasn't even sure it was a noir story--so yes, I think the definition can be pretty broad.<br /><br />One interesting take on it that I've heard is that noir should involve a conniving woman and a not-so-bright guy who's talked into committing a crime (robbing a bank, killing the woman's husband, etc.). I always think <i>Double Indemnity</i>, <i>Body Heat</i>, <i>The Postman Always Rings Twice</i>, etc.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-71575674636951526902017-02-26T09:04:53.936-05:002017-02-26T09:04:53.936-05:00Good post. Love Noir. More difficult for me to wri...Good post. Love Noir. More difficult for me to write because, as Otto Penzler tells us, "Noir is about losers." My detectives and private eyes usually win. I hop you'll let us know when the story sells.O'Neil De Nouxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03142721824657611738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-56918642415760622242017-02-26T08:42:53.469-05:002017-02-26T08:42:53.469-05:00Great post, R.T., and good luck on your story. Let...Great post, R.T., and good luck on your story. Let us know when it sells.<br />I usually get an EQMM rejection in two to three months and haven't sold to them yet.<br /><br />Janice, like you, I wish noir had more humor. I managed to sneak some into a story I have coming out in the first issue of Switchblade Magazine next month, but it grew out of the story without my forcing it. All the characters in that story are flawed though, and they generally get what they deserve.<br /><br />I need to try more noir...Steve Liskowhttp://www.steveliskow.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-87769198064054173012017-02-26T08:17:19.228-05:002017-02-26T08:17:19.228-05:00As Paul said, noir is one of those things no one c...As Paul said, noir is one of those things no one can ever agree on how to define--but maybe that's proof of something vibrant about it? Sorry the anthology fell through, but good luck with EQMM. Fingers crossed! Art Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02409008167752619352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-55193071757386041302017-02-26T08:01:57.975-05:002017-02-26T08:01:57.975-05:00That PS is the noir touch for sure!
My reservation...That PS is the noir touch for sure!<br />My reservation about noir is that it rarely makes room for humor. Hope your story finds a home soonest.janice lawnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-62669219094905867432017-02-26T07:59:33.961-05:002017-02-26T07:59:33.961-05:00Enjoyed the article, R.T., and best of luck with t...Enjoyed the article, R.T., and best of luck with the story--I'm betting you have a sale there. I seldom give much thought to the genre of the story I'm writing (Robin says I don't give much thought to anything, but that's another subject)and am sometimes surprised with their categorization afterwards. Janet placed my story, "The Children Of Espiritu Santo" in EQMM's Black Mask section which I didn't see coming at all. Interestingly, it does not meet some of the criteria you've mentioned, though it certainly does in other regards. You (or at least me) just never know, do ya? David Deanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13005457506363262838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-29973801020755822362017-02-26T06:03:30.008-05:002017-02-26T06:03:30.008-05:00Good luck with the story, R.T. And I think everyo...Good luck with the story, R.T. And I think everyone has their own definition of noir and that definition has changed over time. But there are some things that never change and those are the darker elements to the story and the characters.Paul D. Markshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15466234708772287399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-42189813651135026462017-02-26T00:13:16.854-05:002017-02-26T00:13:16.854-05:00Best of luck. My definition of nior: You're n...Best of luck. My definition of nior: You're nobody. You try to be somebody. Life's bitch and then you die. Oscar Wilde captured it when he said "We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars." The noir hero tries to something bigger than he or she is - could be something good or bad - and gets squashed for trying. <br /><br />Some have said CASABLANCA is a noir movie. I say, only if Peter Lorre's character is the hero. "I have many friends in Casablanca but you despise me, so you are the only one I trust." THAT'S noir.Robert Loprestihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08844889305615182897noreply@blogger.com