tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post1009475574002963270..comments2024-03-29T08:20:50.011-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: What really happened when Columbus discovered AmericaLeigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-21556595487706867432012-09-27T14:14:04.562-04:002012-09-27T14:14:04.562-04:00Hi, Nadya. My main sources, in addition to the lim...Hi, Nadya. My main sources, in addition to the limited primary sources in English (accounts by Columbus and others who were there or knew someone who was), were Samuel Eliot Morison, whose 1942 biography <i>Admiral of the Ocean Sea</i> won the Pulitzer Prize, and radical historian Kirkpatrick Sale, whose 1984 book <i>The Conquest of Paradise</i> tells the story very differently. You can download my short story, "Navidad,"<br />on UntreedReads.com. It's fiction, but the events it describes (the sinking of the Santa Maria on Xmas Eve and the building of the fort at which 40 men were left behind) really happened.Elizabeth Zelvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13944424094949207841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-39693597916367696602012-09-26T15:35:53.194-04:002012-09-26T15:35:53.194-04:00Hello Elizabeth , in doing some research for Hispa...Hello Elizabeth , in doing some research for Hispanic history month I came across your story. I'm glad somebody tells it as it is and was. Please let me know where you get the facts for your research. I'm super excited to write an article myself to accompany my artwork. I need it to be completely factual, as it will be displayed in a university. Please let me know if I can quote you? Thank you nadyaNadyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-85339788257801340122011-10-11T19:29:37.652-04:002011-10-11T19:29:37.652-04:00Dekanogi, I share your outrage--at the genocide of...Dekanogi, I share your outrage--at the genocide of the Taino and other tribal peoples and the Spanish crimes against other non-Christians, including my own people, the Jews, who were being burned at the stake as "heretics" at the same time. As a storyteller, I'm constantly challenged to find ways to persuade readers to empathize with my own--and my characters' --point of view. All the novelists, short fiction writers, and poets I know agree that we can't afford to get preachy when we take on social issues.Elizabeth Zelvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13944424094949207841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-56657219489970193272011-10-11T17:43:53.430-04:002011-10-11T17:43:53.430-04:00Thank you for writing and understand that we (or I...Thank you for writing and understand that we (or I at least) don't disagree with you. Part Algonquin, I have a foot in both worlds traceable back to Jamestown and Plimoth.<br /><br />Writers face a balancing act introducing readers to ideas and facts they might not want to hear without alienating the audience. The method is to let the recipient discover within themselves their own outrage (if they will) without triggering the tripwires of resentment. In that regard, Elizabeth has done remarkably well.<br /><br />When I mentioned I was 'entertained' by her podcast, the word might not have been the best choice, but the podcast dealt with anti-Semitic sentiment on the voyage long before the ships arrived in the Americas. As you hear from the podcast, Elizabeth casts a wide net when writing about evils of prejudice.<br /><br />You reminded me of misuse of language. My parents were upset that modern white people misunderstood our Algonquin word squa (woman) to mean 'prostitute'. Sadly, the damage is done and thanks to Oprah, it's probably too late to correct.<br /><br />Thank you for taking the time to write us.Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-4203809300960257952011-10-11T17:03:24.175-04:002011-10-11T17:03:24.175-04:00Siyo dtohitsu, it simply seems so strange to me th...Siyo dtohitsu, it simply seems so strange to me that you read of the horrors commited, and so calmly say only "ah yes, so facinating". These were humans, in truth far more human, than "Kilumbus" and his crew, eh? Most sorry, if I seem a little upset, but tsitsalagi(I am Cherokee), and perhaps "see" from a very different view point. But to me the unega(white People)who came were monsterous, uncivilized, ungodly, inhuman, inhumane, and filthy(by their own admission)as if one read about Queen Izabella she states "she had two baths in her life, one at birth, one on her wedding day, and THAT was quite enough for anyone". SHE, though MY, Peoples "nasty" , for bathing daily, as did ALL Christians of that time. It was considered a "sinful thing", in MY mind, is WHY, the unega were SO illness prone, eh? But truely, your ever so calm acceptance of such truths? NO, outrage? Leigh, was "entertained"?, by your tale? I, most HUMBLY thank you from my heart for posting this truth, for sharing it with the world, and hope there are many who learn, what has been denied them in the "History books", the REAL truth, and PRAY, they learn for themselves MUCH more of the REAL truth. Such as all the children that were FORCABLY TAKEN from their families here in America, Native American children, beaten, starved, sexually abused, by CHRISTIANS, in the disguize of "civilizeing", teaching, and traing us, but was in truth taking HOSTAGE, so our families behave themselfs, be docile, and be "good little "Indians".<br />adadoligi ale nvwadohivnv(peace and many blessings)<br />Dekanogi Ulogilv<br />(oh, my, I was not supposed to remember that language was I? :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-30429776894466396212011-10-08T16:34:49.375-04:002011-10-08T16:34:49.375-04:00The editors of my 8th grade American history book ...The editors of my 8th grade American history book didn’t get the facts wrong; they left them out all together. <br /><br />A few years ago, the Niña and the Pinta docked here in Knoxville, and I took my grandson to see them. The ships looked awfully small. After reading your informative article, and thinking about how small the ships were, it is surprising that any of the Taino slaves survived.Louis A. Willishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16563842429688123421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-28490925025965436852011-10-08T15:29:49.830-04:002011-10-08T15:29:49.830-04:00Great column, Liz! Really enjoyed this.Great column, Liz! Really enjoyed this.John Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001712728130488485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-28153588154315881782011-10-08T15:22:17.502-04:002011-10-08T15:22:17.502-04:00Rob, both stories appeared in EQMM: "The Gree...Rob, both stories appeared in EQMM: "The Green Cross" in August 2010 and "Navidad" in January 2011. In the latter, I used the amazing true story that on Xmas Eve 1492 (also the second night of Chanukah that year), they managed to run the Santa Maria onto shoals off Hispaniola in dead calm water and full moonlight--after a three-day party during which no one had slept. The helmsman needed a nap so he left one of the ship's boys at the wheel, and guess what happened. The Santa Maria broke up--she never made it back to Spain. BTW, I hated research when I started. It grew on me. :)Elizabeth Zelvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13944424094949207841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-91284891800057297392011-10-08T10:28:14.260-04:002011-10-08T10:28:14.260-04:00I remember those two short stories about Columbus ...I remember those two short stories about Columbus (in AHMM, right?). I hadn't connected you as the author. I enjoyed them very much. And this iece was fascinating. Ah, the joys of doing research.Robert Loprestihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08844889305615182897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-45413960271604422252011-10-08T10:27:55.323-04:002011-10-08T10:27:55.323-04:00I love history and so I thank you for sharing the ...I love history and so I thank you for sharing the truths we've not heard before. Great article!Deborah Elliott-Uptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00847049319243268520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-13203733234960467812011-10-08T08:23:27.533-04:002011-10-08T08:23:27.533-04:00Dix, the word tobacco is definitely Taino, but I d...Dix, the word tobacco is definitely Taino, but I don't know if they brought any home. I think it's unlikely its use spread in Europe at that time. The Spaniards were such lousy botanists that most of what they saw they misidentified. For example, what they thought was aloe (valuable) was not aloe but some other plant (worthless).<br /><br />Leigh, it was <i>much</i> worse than the moon. The astronauts could see the moon and knew what they were aiming for. :)Elizabeth Zelvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13944424094949207841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-8058256039589416062011-10-08T01:22:01.671-04:002011-10-08T01:22:01.671-04:00I listened to and appreciated the podcast of your ...I listened to and appreciated the podcast of your first story. It's not often we learn while being entertained, Elizabeth.<br /><br />Launching those expeditions had to be tantamount to landing men on the moon, even tougher considering sailing masted ships wasn't for wusses.Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-25722907621007152532011-10-08T01:18:25.298-04:002011-10-08T01:18:25.298-04:00Wow, Liz! Thanks for the grisly treasure trove of...Wow, Liz! Thanks for the grisly treasure trove of information! Really interesting. Maybe your research will confirm or deny something for me:<br /><br />In tobacconist circles, it is said that when Columbus first landed on Hispaniola, the Taino chief there offered to share a “Tovacco” with him. This “tovacco” was supposed to have been a large, rough-rolled cigar-equivalent, and Columbus (according to the story) returned with “tovaccos” which he presented to Ferdinand & Isabella – the introduction of tobacco to Europe. Supposedly, this is why the “Wooden Indian” became the symbol of tobacconists.<br /><br />Can you tell me if the story rings true? Or is it apocryphal? I’ve always wondered, and after reading your article, I thought you might know.<br /><br />And, whether you know the truth behind the legend in question, or not, your article was really interesting.<br /><br />--DixDixon Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11220791609338404147noreply@blogger.com