tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post8290539577801072574..comments2024-03-29T10:24:43.685-04:00Comments on SleuthSayers: A Matter of BeliefLeigh Lundinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-5986818578425426422014-06-06T19:04:08.676-04:002014-06-06T19:04:08.676-04:00Eve, you make me sorry I missed the chance to get ...Eve, you make me sorry I missed the chance to get online yesterday. Really enjoyed this. <br />I've long held: Learning about an opposing view is not dangerous, but ignorance of it may well be.Dixon Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11220791609338404147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-64882645180227262432014-06-06T15:53:47.419-04:002014-06-06T15:53:47.419-04:00David, thanks for an explanation of something that...David, thanks for an explanation of something that has always remained a mystery...<br />Leigh and Agnes, it's comforting (?) to know that others have been through the same experience. <br />I totally agree with Sun Tzu, which is why I do check out certain pod casts, websites, etc., with whom I totally disagree: know your enemy! And I wonder if this thinking is part of what has made some of our foreign policy so abysmal: that people aren't going by history and facts, but beliefs...<br />Just got back from vacation with the kids; thanks, all! Eve Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015761600962360110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-16408277505415128242014-06-05T11:21:52.507-04:002014-06-05T11:21:52.507-04:00More thoughts, Eve:
My school, Rose-Hulman Tech, ...More thoughts, Eve:<br /><br />My school, Rose-Hulman Tech, née Rose Polytechnic Institute, used to invite a leading communist to present his views to the college. It wasn’t to inculcate a belief in communism, but to civilly provide a forum demonstrating that all may be respectfully heard. I don’t think anyone was convinced, but we were polite.<br /><br /><br /><b>God is Dead</b> was a theological movement with an in-your-face name. The finer points could be argued, but on the one hand, theologists argued that modern man (and woman) acted as if God were dead, and on the other hand offered a model of Christianity that was more reachable, that God wasn’t somewhere up in the sky, but walked among us. The actual phrase came from Nietzsche and Hegel: “God is dead… and we have killed Him.”<br /><br />Some might argue the usual suspects: Bakker, Falwell, Hinn, Schafly, Swaggart, and Tilton.<br />Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-51068882844762230852014-06-05T10:45:43.369-04:002014-06-05T10:45:43.369-04:00Actually, I do see a kind of logic to the Catholic...Actually, I do see a kind of logic to the Catholic comparison. Among a lot of the more insular, and fundamentalist, Christian denominations there is still a strong suspicion of all things Catholic, a church they see as worldly and corrupt idolaters (the pedophile scandal has hardly helped there). But, it's an old tradition stemming from the days it was preached as gospel in England, and elsewhere, that Catholics were treasonous in their loyalty to the pope and in league with the secular enemies of Britain, not to mention apostates. That tradition certainly got carried over to America, so I can see how you might have been cast down among us by its adherents when you refused to let them preach.<br /><br />As you say, learning is not analogous to conversion, so there's not much to fear in the end. I suspect that some of the harder heads were feeling unsure, as young people are wont to, and fearful of the result of exposure. With age, I've found the opposite to be true, my own faith has been strengthened by the study of history. And though it remains difficult not to be intolerant of the intolerant, both religious and atheist, I just put my head down and keep going.David Deanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13005457506363262838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-92004646981946592842014-06-05T10:10:17.901-04:002014-06-05T10:10:17.901-04:00Angie, if you take on Macs, you really are talking...Angie, if you take on Macs, you really are talking religion!<br />Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-20764554029947357482014-06-05T10:01:00.192-04:002014-06-05T10:01:00.192-04:00When I was in college I TAed for my Western Civ in...When I was in college I TAed for my Western Civ instructor, and in the second class (of four in the series), we studied the development of early Christianity from a purely historical perspective. I had to talk one or two true-believer students down off the ledge whenever that class came around. One woman had her crisis of faith at home one weekend and called me. (I gave all the students my home phone number, despite the other TAs telling me I was crazy; nobody ever abused it, amazingly enough.)<br /><br />I was on the phone with her for a couple of hours, explaining that learning to use the historical point of view, like a tool, didn't mean giving up her faith, or replacing her faith with the historical perspective. I compared it with my own experience with computers -- I'm a PC person and always have been, but at an office job I had for almost a decade, I worked for a company that was on the Mac standard. I don't like Macs, never have, but for work I had to learn to use them, and the software packages the company used on them. I got good with them, learned to troubleshoot, and became one of the people others in my department came to for help. It didn't mean I liked or preferred Macs, and when I went home I happily settled down at my PC. But while I was at work I competently used the Mac. And while she was in our class, she needed to learn to competently use the historical perspective.<br /><br />It worked. I never had a student walk out, or just refuse to learn what was, after all, about half the term's material. Just as well. The instructor (who did her own share of talking-off-the-ledge, with students who preferred going to her) would've had no problem failing them.<br /><br />Which, I think, is the only valid response if they get stubborn. [shrug] Try to explain and make them comfortable, but if they aren't having any, then you deduct points as appropriate and let the GPA fall where it may.<br /><br />AngieAngiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920578701763415331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-74688867149118959772014-06-05T09:45:35.084-04:002014-06-05T09:45:35.084-04:00Eve, the workings of the human mind is a constantl...Eve, the workings of the human mind is a constantly fascinating (if not also frustrating) subject. Great article.R.T. Lawtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523486296396710227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-17282530235098967982014-06-05T09:28:14.962-04:002014-06-05T09:28:14.962-04:00I was a university professor for many years, and y...I was a university professor for many years, and your post certainly reminded me of one of the reasons I don't do that any more. I taught biology. I have never been able to understand or make peace with the terror people have when faced with simply learning about something of which they disapprove. There really is a belief that if they learn about it, they will somehow realize it's not as evil as they had thought, and they will be corrupted and destroyed. It makes education into literally a sinister plot to ensnare and entrap the unwary. It makes it nearly impossible to do thing you've been hired to do for them: teach them about something they don't know yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-40502770586833321332014-06-05T08:57:03.765-04:002014-06-05T08:57:03.765-04:00A thoughtful piece. I remember back in the 50'...A thoughtful piece. I remember back in the 50's when the idea of learning about Communism was still at least mildly controversial, even in the northeast.Janice Lawnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3119105822589181967.post-83284494926936873972014-06-05T01:58:26.749-04:002014-06-05T01:58:26.749-04:00Although not in a classroom, I have encountered th...Although not in a classroom, I have encountered the unwillingness to learn anything about certain topics, which I attribute to fear. But fear of what? Of being seduced? Fear of one’s own weakness? Or fear that one’s government or church might somehow be peeping into one’s life?<br /><br />A friend was horrified I looked at North Korea’s web site as if I would somehow become lost. Another friend wouldn’t read Al Jazeera, claiming it was a tool of Al Quaida, never mind the news agency worked as hard as the US to expose and oppose Bin Laden.<br /><br />The great irony is that Sun Tzu in the Art of War advised us to learn everything about one’s enemy, everything possible. Thus in a way, one could argue that by refusing to learn, one is also refusing to fully embrace one’s own beliefs.<br /><br />I have a good, good friend who is, or at least was, a staunch communist. Because she’s a dear friend, I listen to her before I put in my oar. And she certainly makes one good point regarding the horrors of the far right. In listening, I discovered behind the façade of her ideology, her puzzled, irreconcilable concern how the ‘beautiful dream’ attracted such madmen as Stalin, Dzerzhinsky, and Mao, the horrors of the far left. When Soviet communism fell and Chinese communism turned toward a entrepreneurism, she became disillusioned but our friendship provided a path to acceptance. (It hasn’t helped that the greed of bankers, brokers, and mortgagors a decade ago badly bruised the image of a free market economy.)Leigh Lundinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921276795499571578noreply@blogger.com